2159 Cpl Charles Brimelow Green 1Bn

[SunDodginDoc]

Hi

Charles was my great grandfather and we have copies of his service documents. What I don't have is an idea of his career - postings etc. As he has 3 clasps to his QSA I can do a bit of plotting with that but I'd like to know if it's possible to get some greater detail.  Of course, I'd like to tie that in with his Battalion's history over the same period.

[mack]

hiya doc
his service number was 2159 and he served in south Africa with the 2nd battalion as a lance sergeant[corporal]a lance sergeant wears three stripes and can use the sergeants mess but hes only paid as a corporal,he was a qualified assistant signalling instructor.

he enlisted in the 1st battalion on 19-3-1888 aged 23,on 1-5-1895 he went into the reserves until he was recalled to the colours on 26-9-1899,he received clasps for his QSA medal for wittenbergen,cape colony and Transvaal,discharged on termination of his engagement on 27-5-1901.
born 24-11-1863
died southport 6-9-1922
resided 19 lord st,southport

mack

[PhilipG]

SunDodginDoc,

                                                                                                                                                                1st Bn. Manchester Regiment

In October 1887 the battalion was at Aldershot moving on the 4th April 1888 to Tipperary.    The stay of the battalion was an unusually long one, it not moving until 5th February 1891 when it moved to Kinsale.   The period here was quite long, too, until on the 31st October 1894 when the battalion sailed for Liverpool, upon arrival locating at Fulwood Barracks, Preston.   One company was later despatched to the Isle of Man.     In November 1895 the battalion returned to Aldershot.

PhilipG.

[SunDodginDoc]

hiya doc
his service number was 2159 and he served in south Africa with the 2nd battalion as a lance sergeant[corporal]a lance sergeant wears three stripes and can use the sergeants mess but hes only paid as a corporal,he was a qualified assistant signalling instructor.


mack

Thanks, Mack, and please excuse the basic error of not proofreading my post and his service number in particular!

I've got his military history sheet and he's always referred to as Corporal. Was that the convention or would he have been recorded as a Lance Sergeant? Later on today  I'll attach the copies of the documents that I have.

[SunDodginDoc]

SunDodginDoc,

                                                                                                                                                                1st Bn. Manchester Regiment

In October 1887 the battalion was at Aldershot moving on the 4th April 1888 to Tipperary.    The stay of the battalion was an unusually long one, it not moving until 5th February 1891 when it moved to Kinsale.   The period here was quite long, too, until on the 31st October 1894 when the battalion sailed for Liverpool, upon arrival locating at Fulwood Barracks, Preston.   One company was later despatched to the Isle of Man.     In November 1895 the battalion returned to Aldershot.

PhilipG.

Hi Philip,

Thank you. Charles joined the depot (Ladysmith Barracks?) on 19 Mar 88. How long would he have spent there before joining the Battalion in Tipperary? He went to the reserve on 1 May 95 so would that have been a 7 year engagement?

He was recalled in December 99 so do you have his potential movements noting Mack's comments in another reply that he went to 2 Bn?

[PhilipG]

SunDodginDoc,

Re your question concerning joining the battalion in Tipperary.        :  I don't know, but I note that on the 4th April 1888, 548 private soldiers were included in the marching state.

Re "7 year engagement".                                                             :  It would seem likely.  In which case I offer "Seven years with the Colours & five years on Reserve."

Re 2nd battalion movements.                                                       :  Sadly, I know nothing of the Regiment's activities in that period.  May I suggest a suitable enquiry in the Boer War Section.


PhilipG.

[Bob.NB]

Here's a brief note on where your great grand father served:

On 8th December 1899 the battalion was concentrated at Holyhead before sailing to Dublin the following day. However, as a result of the outbreak of the Boer War the battalion was ordered to Aldershot on 19th January 1900 from where it mobilised for active service in South Africa as part of the 17th Brigade in the 8th Division under Lt Gen Rundle and embarked in the SS Bavarian from Southampton on 16th March 1900.
Trained men were urgently required but over 200 men in the battalion were either under age or medically unfit to fight in South Africa and so 375 reservists were recalled to the colours.
The battalion disembarked at Port Elizabeth on 9th April and two days later moved by train to Edenburg and from there marched to Reddersburg and on to Mostert's Hoek. The 8th Division was to push forward to the relief of Wepener, a small town in the south-eastern part of the Orange Free State where colonial troops were besieged by De Wet. Rundle's force moved east towards Dewetsdorp where it encountered fierce Boer resistance from a force under the command of De Wets' brother Piet De Wet. Although the Boers eventually moved north the 2nd Battalion had been entrenched under enemy fire for fifty hours but suffered no casualties.
The battalion pursued the Boers north through Thaba'Nchu, Houtnek and Senekal before moving to Ficksburg on 4th June 1900 where it remained in occupation. The Boers were concentrated some seven miles to the North-East and so the battalion was occupied in strengthening the town's defences.
The battalion moved out of Ficksburg on 30th June and marched to Hammonia and on 24th July the battalion, as part of the 8th Division, began an attack on the Boer positions. The fighting went on for two days before the Boers retreated north towards Fouriesburg. The 17th Brigade entered Fouriesburg on 30th July and two days later 4,000 Boers under Prinsloo surrendered.
The 17th brigade moved to Reitz on 14th August. Here much needed supplies were received – the men had been on short supplies and their clothing and boots were in many cases unserviceable (questions were asked in the House of Commons about the privations suffered by Rundle's troops)
The brigade and hence the battalion continued to serve in this area for a considerable time moving to Vrede, Bethlehem and back to Senekal. On 17th August the enemy were engaged at Bronkhartsfontein but escaped and the battalion was back in Senekal on the 19th. From here it moved, via Bethlehem, back to Reitz engaging the enemy on two occasions before arriving at Harrismith on 14th October 1900.
For several weeks the battalion was engaged in escorting convoys between the various 'local' towns (eg Vrede, Reitz, Senekal, Standerton, Harrismith, Reitpan, Bethlehem, Vlakplaats and Ficksburg) and was attacked on numerous occasions suffering several casualties. On 28th January 1901 the battalion took over the defences of Bethlehem having marched 400 miles during the previous eight weeks. Over the next few weeks several minor expeditions went out from the town. In April and May further operations were carried out in the area of Retief's Nek and Fouriesburg before the battalion moved to Harrismith on 8th June 1901 where it was refitted with new kit and stores.

Your great grandfather would also have been entitled to the clasp 'South Africa 1901' to his Queen's South Africa - he appears under the name "C Grant" on the rolls for this clasp due to an error in transcribing his name but as this roll was not signed until 1903, by which time your grandfather had left the Army, he probably never knew about it.
Hope it helps.
Bob B

[SunDodginDoc]

That's tremendous stuff, Bob! I'll transpose as much as I can onto a map to follow their route.  It was interesting to see the piece about reservists being called up and I can now reconcile that with his history sheet.

I have just ordered a replica medal for CBG but Ill ask them to add the clasp.

I am truly in awe of you experienced researchers and your ability to be able to access the right information. It's tremendously helpful Bob, thank you.

Another question if I may - can you point me at a resource that would show the uniform that would have been worn and the cap badge?

Pete

[Bob.NB]

I'm afraid I'm not very good on uniforms and cap badges but I'm sure someone else will be able to answer your query.
Best wishes.
Bob B

[SunDodginDoc]

I thought I'd upload this. This is all I have on him, We think the photograph is him.

[SunDodginDoc]

The pdf didn't attach