The Manchester Regiment Forum
1946 to 1958 => Malaya => Topic started by: autgoc on September 09, 2016, 10:16:17 PM
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Hello everyone,
My membership has only just been approved for this forum and I truly am grateful for this opportunity to be here.
I am Magdelene De Rozario. I am originally from Sarawak but I now reside in Fife, Scotland. I am currently researching the above subject matter for a book I have been commissioned to write. I working alongside GOC Major General Datuk Stephen Mundaw, 1st Infantry Division Commander, MOD Malaysia, an Iban by race. This project is fully funded by an enthusiast whose identity I am presently not at liberty to divulge.
I was home this Summer and travelled to Sibu and Sri Aman. I met up with a few of these wonderful men. My trip has triggered a Task Force, formed & under the personal supervision of GOC Major General Stephen Mundaw, to further seek them out and attend to their general welfare. Their welfare will be taken under the wings of JHEV (Dept of Veterans Welfare) as well as the existing SRVA. Please note that it is not our (author & GOC) intention at any instance to touch on the politics of SRVA. Our sole concern here is for the Iban Trackers & Sarawak Rangers.
It is safe for me to say that for the role our Iban Trackers & Sarawak Rangers played in the Malayan Emergency, it is very sad to note that officially we do not have a list of their names. It is my primary task to try and get hold of as many names as I possibly can. I have to date, through my researches on many British veterans websites, gathered a handful of names and captivating photographs. This is my 2nd year on this project and my gut feeling tells me that I have barely scraped the tip of this particular iceberg. I have given myself a loose time frame of 5 years whereby at the end of the 5th year would see the publication of this Memoir. It is my hope that veterans of the Malayan Emergency here would help me with stories and indeed information (especially names) with regards this relatively undocumented bit of Sarawakian history --- the Iban Trackers & Sarawak Rangers our Unsung Heroes.
Giving up is not an option as this particular band of soldiers must be immortalised.
Thank you for your views :-)
For further verification of my work please email me at autgoc.ibsr(at)gmail.com - replace (at) with @ (modified to protect you from spam)
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Good morning and welcome to the Forum Magdelene,
I am presuming that you may already have read or are in the process of reading the previous twenty or so pages that should interest you in the earlier section in Malaya. In which you will find considerable items which will be associated with your mission, as the former Platoon Sgt (Commander) of the First Sarawak Rangers attached to The Manchester Regiment from their inception in Siginta Camp, Malacca back in 1953.
I am also interest in your own surname primarily because whilst teaching in Australia many years ago i had a student of a similar surname - George del Rosario, came from the Phillipines - any connection at all?
Looking forward to be helping you in any way possible.
George
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Magdelene,
Good luck with the book.
I hope you can find time to go and visit George and drain him of all his memories of that period.
I am sure he could contribute a great deal to the book.
From what I have read on here the subject is very dear to him.
regards
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Nma rita nuan, Apai Tuai George?
One long, arduous year of researching and writing, writing and researching, indulging in self-doubt, setting adverse emotions aside and pushing forth regardless; I stumble across this Forum. If ever I wonder whether this book should be published I know now that it must be.
You cannot imagine what your willingness to impart knowledge of your years spent with the Sarawak Rangers in the Malayan Emergency actually means to me. When I finished reading your message I jumped around my livingroom in total euphoria and utter disbelief of what lay before me. It took a good 10mins for reality to sink in before the tears came...
I've already sent a message to GOC Datuk Stephen, I told him to sup with a smile as my message found him on his way to a dinner engagement. We are both so so grateful. Thank you so much Apai Tuai George.
May I be permitted to follow up on what Sphinx has recommended and that is to come and see you personally some time in the very near future? Could I have a telephonic conversation with yourself soon? Please say yes :-)
By the way, as for my surname I regret to say that De Rozarios or Del Rozarios are as common as muck when it comes to being Portuguese. I am sorry but I am not related to your former student although I wouldn't mind to be :-)
My daddy was of Portuguese/Dutch/English descent from Singapore whilst my mummy was of Chinese Nyonya descent from Miri, Sarawak. I was born in the depths of the 2nd Division of Sarawak. Hence my love for my countrymen.
Salam sayau ke nuan sebilik Apai Tuai George.
Ngarap ke gerai belama.
Translation from Iban (above)...
Loving regards to you and your family esteemed Mr George.
May you enjoy good health always.
Magdelene
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Sphinx,
Thank you for your kind words.
With the passion and support which I am sure I will get in this forum, my book will find its way.
I will endeavour to make it worth its space on the shelf; here's hoping not just one shelf hmm :-)
Magdelene
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Apai Tuai George,
Here I attach a photo 1st of all of myself so you may be able to put a face to a name.
Warmest regards,
Magdelene
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Magdelene,
I have a major health problem - I have had two strokes which leaves me with various problems.
Firstly I have great difficulty with typing which annoys me very much and therefore I have had to work out a system to try to answer your anticipated questions - therefore I have tried to make it as simple for you to follow in a fairly easy manner in which I have worked out for you to gain the answers.
Go right back to the FIRST PAGE OF THE FORUM. Click on the word Malaya-this will open up all the messages on this subject.
The very first subject isBorneo Head-Hunters click on that and it is the First Page of the messages relating to the Topic . Read All of the messages each time and it will all begin to make sense to you., By the time you get to page 2 where you will find that the first Photograph which is of Myself and Magi the first Iban to be mentioned. As you proceed further you will find mention of the first of many messages from Lt. Col. Rizal Abdullah -and by time you get further and further into the messages you will find ALL ANSWERS to 90% of your questions which in due course will also provide your GOC with the similar questions.
Any time you get stuck - fire away your query and I will try to give you answers. Apai Tuai George.
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Tis I again,
Many thanks for your photograph and your obvious excitement which exudes from your response.
Apai Tuai George.
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Yes I have found and been reading the comments made on the post Borneo Headhunters.
I am compiling as I go along. However I am finding difficulty opening the links to the uploaded photographs.
I shall persevere!
Many thanks for your generous assistance.
I still wish and hope to meet with you Apai Tuai George.
I am prepared to travel. I only need to know where I need to go.
Please?
You are most welcome regarding the photo... I just thought it would help to put face to name :-)
indu Sarawak,
Magdelene
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One of the many photos taken with ex Iban Trackers & Sarawak Rangers circa 1953 in Lubok Antu during my trip back home to Sarawak this Summer, July 2016.
L -- R
Anyang (Sarawak Rangers), Penghulu Burong (Sarawak Rangers), myself, Serau (Iban Tracker later Sarawak Rangers) & Capt Johari (1st Bn M'sian Rangers)
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Good morning Magdelene,
I will be sending you a PM - the system we use on the Forum to hopefully limit the availability for hackers to get private details for us - it should be with you in a few miniutes after I send thie message to you.
Apai Tuai George.
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Magdalene.
To view some photographs of our Ibans go to the Manchester Regiment Archives webpage. Open the Image Archive section and then open two pages : Dyak and then Iban. Both have good photographs and some have the names of the men concerned.
Best wishes.
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Hello Robert,
Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction.
I shall get right to it.
Magdelene
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Good morning Apai Tuai George,
Please find attached a pic of papers I came across this summer gone when I went home and visited some Iban Trackers & Sarawak Rangers.
This is of one Sarawak Rangers, Kiai ak Inyang, who was enlisted on 25th March 1953. Might he be one of the young men you received and was put in charge of all those years ago?
I regret to say he passed away in 2014. His were the only well kept and neatly laminated papers I found.
Is it not said though that the dead speak still from beyond the grave?
indu Sarawak Magdelene
(indu means girl in Iban)
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Good morning indeed it is Magdelene,
I (we) have read the manuscript which I found this morning in My Messages. It answered The very reason why I decided to send you my telephone number which resulted in our lengthy discussions last evening which I (we) thoroughly enjoyed and are looking forward to meeting up with you personally next month.
Which brings me to the second item - i.e. The details of the "service records of the Sarawak Ranger ,Kiai ak Inyang, who Enlisted on 25th March, 1953 and was discharged 26th MARCH. 1956" - YES INDEED HE MAY VERY WELL BE ON THE PHOTOGRAPH currently lying up on the wall of my (our) dining room here in front of me. (What a pity we do not have the Identity Card he must/should have had with him ?) Hey Ho and all that jazz!!.) All I can add is May He Rest In Peace and enjoy his Long-House rest.And yes indeed I agree entirely with your comment in that regard.
Let us leave the Moderators to think about this news. :-)
Till the next time.
Apai Tuai George.
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Exciting days ahead Apai Tuai George :-)
I thoroughly enjoyed listening to you last night. Thank you Alice for being the lovely person you are giving this total stranger a chance to speak to your man hmmm :-)
Wild horses will not be able to keep me away from meeting both of you next month. I suspect (not taken as a threat I hope) that there will be several more telephonic conversations prior to our pub-meet! For I do know of a few really nice ones down your neck of the woods wink wink.
However I am not entirely sure I understand, Apai Tuai George, what you meant by "lets leave the moderators think about this news..."?
I'll just trust you on this one.
Chat soon!
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Good evening Magdelene,
Your first statement says it all.
Alice thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you which confirmed my own "gut reaction" immediately, hence the ease I felt in speaking to you and answering your questions speaks volumes. As you say there are definitely exciting days ahead and I am looking forward to them.
Take care and continue the good work.
Apai Tuaia George.
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Morning Magdelene,
My original idea is not working out, I have lost about half a page of A4 by accident three time and will have to think of something else. My typing skills are not as proficient as I thought. Maybe I will have to consider recording them on tapes or something and sending them to you than way.
Sorry and all that - it is so frustrating.
Take care, I will sit and think a bit more.
Apai Tuai George.
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Good afternoon Apai Tuai George,
Greetings from my jam making kitchen!
I understand the pain of not being able to have what one desires but I cannot imagine and won't even begin to speculate the level of frustration you must experience at this stage. I get a soupcon of this whenever I am around my dear father in law who is 98 and has only recently given up driving due to a mild stroke.
Yes it is a good idea to sit and have a think for a great many of our problems will be surmountable if only we made a habit of this little practice of enlightment :-). And before I forget please know that I am deeply grateful for whatever you are able to impart; efforts on your part my dear Apai Tuai George is invaluable. Thank you.
indu Sarawak Magdelene
btw, do you both enjoy homemade jams? hehehe :-)
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Most certainly Magdelene,
And whilst I am at it, I have started to buildup some answers to your questions in the last PM, this is what I was working on when I gave up after loosing three quarters of A4 not once but three times this morning. However I am now trying to do something similar so that I can give you ALL of the information that is still available in my memory so that it will be in my form of hand written notes which hopefully I will then be able to tell you verbally all the details you are asking for.
I am building this up and using the photographs which are already on the Borneo Headhunters Section on Malaya so that It will hopefully make sense.
There is a very stubbourne individual sitting here believe you me.
Take care and don't burn the jam !
Apai Tuai George,.
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They didn't burn perhaps I can multi-task after all ☺
Fruits from my garden.
All done with jams and preserves.
Now that the brain has rested it is reeling with ideas for my following chapters.
Dear Apai Tuai George, would you be interested in a few pages I've written on the social & cultural anthropology of the Ibans?
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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;D ;D ;D Now that I have finished salivating -Yes please to the pages.
Apai Tuai George.
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hehehehe... nice to know products of my efforts are enticing!
I shall go over my work and pick out of the mess of a manuscript pile and get something over to you in the next few days :-)
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Dear Apai Tuai George,
Hope you and Alice are well.
Here please find attached a couple of collages of Gundah ak Adar. I'm pretty sure he's one of your men 😊😊
He's one of the Sarawak Rangers I was fortunate enough to meet this Summer gone.
Best regards,
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Very fine morning indeed to you Magdelene,
After reading your message I immediately removed the photograph of The Sarawak Rangers Platoon from my dining room wall and examined it closely with the aid of a magnifying glass and YES !! - I think there are THREE potential's (?) .
1) On the SECOND ROW - THIRD from the right ( next but one to Cpl. Changghai ) ( see page 98 of Jungle Bashers where He received the COC's Commendation for Bravery at Butterworth).
2) Or possibly the 2nd or 3rd from the Right on Row 3
3) Or again - Fifth from the Right on Row 4.
Remember it is some 53 years and good as my memory may well be - it is a struggle.!!.
Now to the Records of Service for 900305 for Gundali (?) anak Ardar, from Penghulu, Ningkar, Lubok Punta.
Service from 25.3.53 (53?)
Discharged 28.3.6(?)5.
Kuching, Sarawak. 30th April 1965.
Fantastic !!! He appears to be looking better than myself health wise and aging very well; yes that would be his GSM but the last photo has me foxed !! I will re-look later and enlarge it again.
Terimah kaseh,
Apai Tuai George.
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Here you are I've enlarged the bits of your concern regarding the pics.
Years of Embodied Service 1953 -- 1955.
Date of release in Kuching was 30th April 1955.
Sama sama Apai Tuai George.
(My pleasure Apai Tuai George.)
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
First question I must start asking - WHY could't Rizal have found these Records earlier ? They must have been available way back ? Maybe once again the mechanecations (?) that does'n't seems right -Hey Ho?) of the Military/Polotico set-up which he found himself in - I did advise him to be careful, once governments step in Chaos automatical develops - therefore NO further Comments from Me on that score.
Terimah kasek on the enlargements, I had never considered that was the edge of the GSM showing his number and name, I spotted the fingers but couldn't make out the GSM Rim.
Apai Tuai George
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Dear Apai Tuai George (Alice)
I am not in the position to cast any sort of opinion with regards to Robert Rizal. His was one of the books I pulled off the library shelf when I began my research. I will now leave it at that. ;-)
What I am about to say next I hope you or anybody else who reads this post will not think me pompous! If I come across as such an individual I can only beg for your pardon as I assure you it is not my personal disposition.
About 8 or so months into my research, I became rather consumed with this subject and decided that I would take on this challenge which is a field whereby I'm totally ignorant. I knew from research experiences that what one digs up in the archives never beats face to face, upclose and personal experiences with one's subject matter. I requested from the GOC a meet up and interview session with these veterans; he agreed to my idea and said he would arrange for such session with the ones who are currently based in Kuching. Later I was advised that there are a few Trackers & Sarawak Rangers registered with the SRVA Baru in Lubok Antu and that Capt Johari would take me there should I so wish to visit such a remote area.
I could not believe what was being offered to me! I immediately agreed to it and when I was in Kuching I met up with Capt Johari. We planned our trip. Whilst we were there I met and interviewed 6 of them and including papers of deceased SR Kiai ak Inyang made 7.
On our journey back to Kuching, Capt Johari and I were silent mulling over all that we have seen and stories we have heard. Unbeknownst to us both then, we were actually contemplating our next move which is to cater for the welfare of these esteemed veterans. However, Capt Johari did post me a question, "Magdelene, how did you manage to get them to speak to you the way they did? They were so forthcoming with so much details and shared so much. I thought I knew them, but the truth is I don't. I am ashamed. Thank you for all you've achieved this time round."
So now we come to the obvious answer to your question as to why Robert Rizal never had these. I didn't dig this up in any Government Archives nor did I with my "well-placed contacts" gained access to Military Archives. This pictures and information alongside them that I have posted so far are all mine. I sourced them myself from my ground zero trip to Lubok Antu.
I don't know what it is Apai Tuai George, I have no answer to the satisfy Capt Johari's query. But one thing for sure and that is I am genuine and possess no ulterior motives except I have only their best interest at heart. I don't want their sacrifices to go unnoticed, buried under the sands of time now that I am made fully aware of them.
I want them and those who fought alongside them immortalised.
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
Like yourself I also came to contact Rizal purely via his blog and my association with Bob. I was very disappointed with him in particularly the manner in which he just dropped off the Forum and has not responded to any of my numerous E-mails - he gained what he wanted, all of the details from me -hence so be it.
Possibly this was maybe my prime reason why I was very hesitant with your initial questions and proposals. Thankfully all of this has now been resolved I am very pleased to say after our very first conversation over the telephone.
I am looking forward to the call this evening keeping my fingers that the Severe Storm forecast for tonight and possibly continuing over tonight.
However, lets look on the brighter side. You possibly understand my difficulty in making notes and answers to your questions ALL IS RESOLVED. Followingt a discusion I have held with my son Sean he has informed my that Because I am now on MS 10 - he after investingating my PC has found the answer and has shown me how to record any notes or comments I make can be recorded and be sent to you via E-mail. ;D ;D ;D.
More about all that this evening, Meanwhile Alice has just advised me that my evening meal will be along very soon so until then - T.T.F.N.:D :D
Apai Tuai George.
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How blessed am I dear Apai Tuai George that I am able to speak to you over the telephone and each time have my soul eased with your wonderful recollection of your Malayan days. Thank you for yet another interesting evening.
My conversations with you makes me terribly homesick for my "boys" the Trackers & Sarawak Rangers veterans back home. I so wish to speak to them and hear their voices live! Alas I can only be content with the video recordings I have of them during our interview sessions.
patience... patience...
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Morning Apai Tuai George,
I believe I've met one of your men in Lubok Antu. He's Pte Anyang of the Sarawak Rangers pictured with u. Is that the same picture on your wall at home?
Pte Anyang told me his Platoon Commander used to tease him saying, "You plenty lucky charm?"
He also told me he lent one of his "lucky charms" to his platoon commander.
Do you remember him or recall such incidences?
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Good morning indu Sarawak Magdelene,
Well at least it is now - Last evening I had a major MS update, it lasted over an hour - some minor problems I sorted there and then others I left until this morning. Opened up this and then began to resolve with the assistance of my son Sean including updating my security set-up. It would seem that their have been many problems with that update for many people as well as myself. However all is hopefully resolved I HOPE.
That would have been whilst we were at Tapah shortly after I had taken and settled them down into there Manchester Regiment days.
I have already checked the Sarawak Rangers picture on the wall YES - Pte Anyang from Lubok Antu - he is the sixth on the second row from the left. Fantastic, regretablly I have no recollection re " he lent one his lucky charms to me" unless he means the hair bracelet one of them put on my wrist ?? That must have been at Tapah, Kedah fairly soon after I had started to get to know them and actually beginning to feel a part and chat with those of them who would understand what I was saying - remember I had only learnt to speak Malay properly around that time and was still in the "learning stage".
I was very nervous when I was actually speaking to them personally at that stage, but gradually once I began to feel really confident, I felt much happier - so presumably did they!! I regret to admit that I would not feel as confident if I were to attempt to do that today especially the state of my mind these days, such are th joys of aging.
Till again,
Apai Tuai George.
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Apai Tuai George,
Was this the 1st or 2nd batch?
With reference to Cpl Adrian ak Tandang, this would have been the 1st batch yes?
indu Sarawak Magdelene :-)
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Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
I thought that I had sent my response BUT I must be mistaken after the problems earlier.
YES - he was in the First batch, SIXTH from the left on the second row; if you check the large photo you will see that the Europeon face just slightly below the first picture of him in Jungle Green- that is 2/Lt. Swartz - the NS Officer on the first row below him.l
I have no idea what or where the second batch were posted to.
Apai Tuai George.
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Thank you :-)
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Indu Sarawak Madgdelene,
In preparing for your intended visit next month I opened the back of the photograph off my den wall and to my surprise on the reverse of it I found some details inscribed thereon which will provide you will some more of the information re the people on the front of it.
"Segenting Camp, Picture taken on my taking over the 1st Platoon of The Sarawak Rangers.
Names FROM Right to left etc.Cpl Adrian,Cpl Recardon (Malay Regiment.He served with British Army and also The Australians in Singapore & Papua New Guinea), Civilian Liason Officer (Malay Police) Ramyshan, W.O.2 (CSM) Bill Walker, The Royal West Kent's Regiment, Lt.Col. (Dicky) Baird (Appointed by General Templar Then High Commissioner for Federated Malay States) following the Asasination of H.C. Gurney), 2/Lt. Swarz (Intelligence Officer for Manchester Regiment, Tapah, Negri Kedah), C.L.O (like previous)Samaryhnan (?), Sgt. Swetman (yours truly LoL), Cpl. Genko. Cpl. Changhai (the photo at the presentation Page 98 on Jungle Bashers for the award of The Commander in Chief's Certificate for Bravery). Third Row, 6th from the Right L/Cpl Nyanau.
So you have a little bit more of 'the Grist from the Mill' as we used to say.
And another saying I learnt from my one of our old friend's Denny Fuchs from Australian used to say - "And that's ALL for now from UP. AP. IN. Irish and Syrup."
Apai Tuai George.
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Thank you!!!
Exciting days ahead dear Apai Tuai George :-)
I'm yet to receive your personal accounts with regards to your days with them. I am not in any hurry as long as you are collating information from your memory be it slowly but surely. I'm quite content to wait until I see you
I'm eagerly counting down the days and I think you believe me.
Oh all this unexpected developments! Back to my "messies" (what I call my manuscript).
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Magdalena and George.
I really feel that it's time for me to jump in on this absolutely fascinating conversation between the two of you and say how interesting it is for members of the Forum to learn about this area of relatively recent Manchester Regiment history. I'm delighted that George, my old comrade & friend, is able to remember so much detail from what were interesting and very exciting days.
Magdalene, you've opened up a very important sector of both Malaysian and British history. There are still a few of us ancient veterans around who remember our Iban trackers with great affection. Very best wishes in your continued research.
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Hello Robert,
I'm honoured to note that this topic of my research is worthy of dear Apai Tuai George's attention and of your "jumping" in as you put it :-)
It is really nice to know that it also serves a purpose beyond my own selfish benefit. Regrettably I sometimes do get a pang of guilt in that I am dragging dear Apai Tuai George and some of the readers through this entire drama once more after "Borneo Headhunters". I do read and reread "Borneo Headhunters" and rake as much up as I can to minimise repeating queries.
Interesting part of both our countries' history indeed it is! You see nothing makes a better read than a bit of controversy, mmm hmm :-). And that it lacks not in this particular subject matter. The Iban Trackers and Sarawak Rangers were pivotal in the claiming back of Malaya from the Chin Peng guerrillas. But they do not even get a mention in our history books in general. Take me for instance. i stumbled across Iban Tracker Awang ak Raweng GC on a bored afternoon's browse through Facebook. A year on here I am. Lest we forget...
On quite a different note, I pick up on your comment that "there are still,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Iban Trackers with great affection". So far I've only known of dear Apai Tuai George, and as you know he is imparting invaluable knowledge and information. The fact that he received the 1st Platoon of Sarawak Rangers just blows my mind away. How could I be as lucky as me!? Having said this I am still dying to hear from different individuals regarding their experiences. Record them and include them in this book. I am guessing that you are one of them these individuals apart from Apai Tuai George since you used "us ancient ............." There must be someone out there who were with these Trackers or Sarawak Rangers in combat. Seen them in action. Witnessed their acts of valour.
But how would I go about tapping into the memory banks of other "ancient veterans"? I don't know who they are. I'm relying on them coming forward to share otherwise i have absolutely no idea who they might be. Please do you have any suggestions for me with regards to finding out who these other veterans might be?
Thank you.
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Magdelene
This youngster would just like to say that I think Roberts comments go for all who read about the Iban Trackers.
I was there with my parents and whilst only 11, 12 and 13 at the time I was aware of the situation and the roll of the Iban Tracker. My father had served in the 1st Battalion The Manchester Regiment however he transferred to the Royal Army Pay Corps before going to Malaya with the Regiment. Unfortunately my father is no longer alive so I am unable to find out if he was involved with paying any of the Ibans.
My family lived in Penang where the university is now and I went to Slim School in the Cameron Highlands, an Army Boarding School at the time. The children travelled from various parts of Malaya to Ipoh by road or train then were taken to the school in an armoured convoy. When the school closed it became a Malaysian Army commando camp.
This is the Slim School web site: http://www.slimschoolmalaya.com/maingate.htm
Cliff
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Cliff,
I had intended to phone you this evening with the intention of suggesting that she might well be interested if you described to her your impressions of the journey from Ipoh up the Black road from Ipoh to The Slim School up along the Cameron Highlands - just an idea from the point of a young boy with your father serving with the Manchester Regt.
Take care.
George.
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Magdelene,
Robert is very modest.
He was indeed in Malaya at that time and is the author of "Jungle Bashers" the story of the Manchester Regiment in Malaya.
He may be able to put you in touch with the Malayans Veteran Assosciation whose members will no doubt be able to help you.
regards
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Bob,
I thank you for your message re Indu Sarawak Magdelene and myself and especially her comment " us ancient.... etc. " - I intend to give Crispin Worthington a phone call this evening to see if he knows anything in respect of The Forum then if not suggest to him that he consider joining it as the Platoon Commander of 4 Platoon B Company at Kroh, Perak and descibe some of his own and their impressions of the Ibans he and the platoon worked with and also some of the patrols you and them then underwent.
Apai Tuai George ;D ;D ;D
PS Thanks Sphinx apparently great minds think alike ;D ;D
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Hi George,I have been following the many posts by yourself and the young lady researching the Ibans and Sarawak Rangers,If I remember correctly one of the Iban trackers was named Bhujang thats what we called him and the name he responded to,Bhujang and another Iban were often attached to the mortar platoon when they operated as infantry men,Bhujang was a great character and his culinary skills with a compo pack was unbelievable,the other Iban we called smokey he smoked the foulest hand rolled cigarette ever.Happy days,nice to see Bob and Rafboy following your conversations,Keep Well,Fondest to Alice.
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Cliff,
I had intended to phone you this evening with the intention of suggesting that she might well be interested if you described to her your impressions of the journey from Ipoh up the Black road from Ipoh to The Slim School up along the Cameron Highlands - just an idea from the point of a young boy with your father serving with the Manchester Regt.
Take care.
George.
George, I am loving following this topic and wish I could contribute a lot more. I don't think my memory is half as good as yours these days. As a young lad life was very much an adventure, yes we were aware of the risks from the CT's but did not feel threatened. When home in Penang during the school holidays it was very carefree, I can remember spending lots of weekends visiting the leave centre at Sandycroft or chasing the girls around the pool at Minden Barracks. The only times the situation was brought home to me were when my parents discussed tragic occurrences or when travelling in those horrible confined "coffins" to and from school. Day time at school was very relaxed with no obvious signs of any guards, at weekends we could get out of the school in small groups without escorts. There were armed guards on the school at night, I would occasionally sneak down to their rest area to share a bottle of Anchor. There was only one time that I became aware of there having been a confrontation with CT's, at the end of each term the school held "Wide Games" when half the school were taken out and had to try to get back in to steal a flag or marker whilst the other half had to defend the school. I was on the defensive side but was taken to the Army camp that overlooked the golf course to watch for anyone approaching the school. I was lent binoculars and fed with crisps and lemonade from the mess there. I spotted what at first I thought were a small group of pupils coming out of the jungle on the far side of the golf course then it became clear that they were soldiers carrying a body on a pole between two of them, later I learnt that it was a dead CT.
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Crumbs Almighty...!!!
What comradery lies before me as I read and re-read your comments in this post of mine. How could I even begin to thank each and everyone of you for your enthusiasm and support!
When I was commissioned with this project I gave myself 6 months to research it to see if it was a topic I could consider undertaking. This is totally out of my reach. Do you know what got me hooked?
It was when I realised that this particular "small war" was a success story brought about by the British Army (partly made up of greenhorn British National Service boys) in collaboration with seasoned jungle dwellers working together with entirely different ends against a common enemy. And of course, just how good our men were!!!
Oh don't get me wrong, it is not just praises I've received in my research on the Iban Trackers. I have come across a particular veteran of another regiment who has said that the Iban Trackers were ok, they were non-entities, superfluous to requirement. They were no grand injection to the cause was the gist of his emails to me.
Am I to take offence? Of course not!
I myself am open to all comments and observations for I truly have no personal opinion of them except one which I form through my research and hearing recollections and meeting some of them 1st hand as mellowed elderly men. God only knows what they were like in their heydays. This is the reason why I need to record as many recollections as possible to deduce a fairly accurate account of their involvement in this "small war".
I hope someday I'll be able to convey my gratitude in an honourable way to all of you here.
This is only a short message to deliver a big fat... "Thank You fellas :-) "
warmest regards,
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Good morning Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
Firstly a quick thank you to those two friends of mine (Roy (Arty) and Cliff) for their contributions to your manuscript.
This morning I have been at the Hospital to have my hearing seen to (normal quarterly check up) nothing to be alarmed about and also this afternoon to make an appointment to have my eyes checked as I have worked out that many of my problems with my typing on the PC seem to be primarily associated with what I am also finding in my reading as well as typing and consider is connected with my glasses ( more than likely the lower part of my bifocals - the upper portion 'Reading' seems to be OK but to be on the safe side I will see the optician. (and before any further comments come in - its only my age obviously and possible the lack of alcohol ;D ;D ;D !!).
Apai Tuai George.
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Here's hoping all went well my dear Apai Tuai George...
Didn't give any of the nurses or attendants at the optician any grief, did you?
A most lethal combination spritely elderly man lacking alcohol...!!!
I salute you Alice ;-)
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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I certainly did not ;D ;D Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
In actual fact I was pleasantly surprised to be given an appointment next Saturday afternoon at 3.15 pm I am happy to say.
Now to continue to add further comments in relation to Roy's statement in respect of Bhujang, one of the Mortar Platoon's lads - I remembered him from when we first saw them at Klian Intan, one of the larger Tin Mines in northern Kedah adjacent to the Siamese Border, but I just couldn't remember their names and was glad when Roy mentioned him and Smokey;- Bhjang is on our photograph, he is on the second Row, FIFTH from the RIGHT , I can remember speaking to him when I saw him and to surprise of Col. Baird when I shook his hand and said something like "Don't I know you from somewhere in the Manchester Regiment ?" whereupon" he grinned and said immediately "Yes, Sgt,with Support Company Mortar Platoon at Klian Intan, Sgt." and from that moment I began to feel almost at home with the entire platoon of the Sarawak Rangers. The one immediately to his right could very well be Smokey but I cannot remember seeing him a Segenting BUT I certainly can remember the definitely FOUL roll-ups that he smoked - so I think it must certainly be the lad next to Bhujang. With a bit of luck we might well be building-up even more names !!.
And of course the comments from Cliff will add to the knowledge you are gaining from further information he gave.
Now that I have worked out in respect of the problems I am having with my writing and typing I will hold fire on the recording matters until I have seen the optician and confirmed re my eyes are at fault in order that can further look at some of the notes I have all ready made, to recheck those comments that I had jotted down which looks like gibberish to me currently and recheck exactly where I had left off.
So for now then here's hoping there will be still more additions to see tonight.
Apsi Tuai George.
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Just letting those following this topic know what I have done to try and help Magdelene get more information.
I contacted the webmaster of my old Army Boarding School (Slim School Cameron Highlands) web site this morning and asked if he would message all the school association members if they could help with providing any information from themselves or their parents regarding the Iban Trackers. This afternoon he has let me know that he has done so and I have received a copy of the message. Lets hope it proves worth while.
I have also posted on the school Facebook page asking if anyone can help and directing them to the Forum topic if they can. One of the former pupils who was at the school several years after me joined the Para's and has passed this request on to his Para association telling me that he is aware that several of the older members worked with the trackers.
If anyone Googles Slim School they need to include "Malaya" as after the Cameron Highlands school closed the name was used by an Army school in Germany.
I hope this helps in some way.
Cliff
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I forgot to tell you in todays message to look at the section on The Forum..... -
MANCHESTER'S FALLEN ; " 59 YEARS AGO TODAY " by kewari - KINGO - The report on the Cameron Highlands Ambush in which five of our Manchester Lads were killed.
Apai Tuai George.
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Getting around the world a bit on this topic, one of the former Slim School pupils who now lives in Australia has sent me the following links via the school site webmaster who lives in Canada.
I suspect that Magdelene will have seen all of these before:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ranger_Regiment
https://ibanology.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/iban-trackers/
www.theborneopost.com/2015/12/16/srva-baru-all-out-for-ex-iban-trackers-rangers/
www.theborneopost.com/.../association-intensifies-efforts-to-trace-ex-iban-jungle-trac...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a...91459...type=1
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/373376625330142040/
www.historyasia.com/shows/last-journey-sarawak
The only one that did not open for me was the Facebook one, I will try it again when I am logged into Facebook.
Cliff
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Dearest Cliff & All...
I suppose we can safely say that this has always been a global topic.
Yes I have seen all this Cliff, thank you very much all the same to your mate(s) down under for being so pro-active. I hope to have their continued support :-)
The angles I lack information are their names and the 1st hand accounts of experiences with the Iban Trackers and Sarawak Rangers.
If you notice all these sites have one or two names and most photographs of Trackers and their superior officers are marked "unknown Tracker". There's nothing "official". This is the reason why coming to know George is such a breakthrough in my research. Suddenly most of these faces, Trackers & Rangers most people respect & revere for their valour, have names, identities. They were somebody's son, brother, husband. father...
And now to be in discussion with so many of you in this forum who remember them fondly or otherwise is manna from heaven for me in my quest to immortalise them and whomsoever come forward with their recollections.
As for the SRVA Baru and all the new veterans association saga I can only say, "politics eh" :-)
Capt Johari recently brought a few of these Veterans Trackers & SR to meet up with the Sarawak State Chief Minister. He was given a pat on his back and told well done for taking up this cause. Any further interest? No further development as far as I know to their welfare apart from a sizeable piece of land given to SRVA then SRVA Baru, yes it was already granted by the state even in the time of Robert Rizal, to plant cash crops whereby profits from the sales of this would be used to cater for the overall welfare of these veterans. Some sort of co-operative system was to be set up.
That piece of land lies idle still as I am typing this reply.
What are we to do then eh?
I'm no Joanna Lumley. I cannot do what she has done for the Gurkhas.
Me? I write.
Thank you once again for your continued support.
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Indu Tuai |Sarawak Magdelene,
This will be a very brief message, I congratulate you and Capt Johari in particular to date. I am trying to limit my time because Alice found a place in Fareham for acupuncture today this morning and made an appointment for today at 2.45 and has just returned and I want to find out how she went on.
I will draft a suitable response this evening after I have re-read it to ensure that the readers of this Topic to ensure them that it will continue to because I never imagined just how far it would go and I have no intention to slow or stop that flow.
So folks I will close now,
Take care,
Apai Tuai George.
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I regret to advise that I have just managed to lose all that I had written abouty a full A4 page for which I apologise BUT will have another bash in the morrow however for Indu Sarawak Magdelene I will quicly name the Iban Tracker JAMPI who was wounded in the head on that contact but made a complete recovery ; the other Iban Tracker was ENTALANG- two of the lad's from 4 platoon got MID's.
More tomorrow,
Nite Nite Apai |Tuai George.
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Good morning all,
Apologies for last night event, maybe I was so excited after my phone call to 2/Lt. Crispin Worthington that I must have inadvertently caught my keyboard and kerboom off it went,so keeping my fingers very carefully away from the keyboard (very difficult so I note) here goes my news from him.
He will be looking for his old notes and advise in due course, meanwhile some of his call :- " quoting from Jungle Bashers - Pages 41/42, B company - under the command of 2/Lt. Crispin Worthington,operating in the Bongsu area of Kedah located a terrorist camp....C.L.O., Wong Siew Meng - and one Iban Tracker JAMPI....When Selkirk reached the top of the hill lying on the ground approximately two yards away. He immediately shot and killed the terrorist. L/Cpl Charlie Wilson then had the magazine of his Owen Gun hit by a bullet. Weng Siew Meng was wounded in the temple, after a bullet had already smashed the stock of his Mark 2 carbine. ....Meanwhile the rest of the patrol, together with Jampi the tracker who had been wounded in his wrist..."
There is a picture on page 19 of 5 platoon - B Company showing L/Cpl Bruce Selkirk on the extreme right.
Both Selkirk and Cpl. Jimmy Walker Crispin advised received M.I.D.'s.
After last night I am being extra careful ..
I will return later today.
Apai Tuai George.
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Hello Apai Tuai George and Everyone who reads this post,
I realise I haven't posted here for over 2 weeks now. My weekly conversation with yourself dear Apai Tuai George unfailingly yields me new information each time. In light of this most unexpected turn of events I have put a mild halt writing on the Malayan Emergency. It is unfair if not foolish to write on it whilst so much information is still surfacing. I have decided it is wise, at the moment, to concentrate my work on Iban Social & Cultural Anthropology.
We have a couple of weeks left before our meeting Apai Tuai George. Exciting days!
I might or might not post here until we meet face to face but be sure I am still around. It ain't that easy to be rid of me ;-)
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Acknowledged Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
;D ;D This is developing greater that I ever imagined ; My apologies for that to everyone else reading it.
Cheers - Apai Tuai George.
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My dearest Apai Tuai George & beautiful Alice,
How do I begin to express my gratitude to the both of you for your warmest hospitality? Hmmm? How indeed!
These past 3 days have gone by far too quickly if you ask me my dears. The ease I experienced in communicating with you is on the level of as if I have known you all of my life. The information imparted and insight offered to me is invaluable. 2 full days of recorded interviews filling up 3 folders and a total of 12hrs Apai Tuai George! Despite Alice's insistence that you ought not waste my time with being longwinded, it is precisely your detailed memory of what went on during your time in the Malayan Emergency that I'm after. Like I said I certainly got what I came to you for, and more!
Do you know what has made my research/meeting with you invaluable?
It is the fact that we both had knowledge to offer each other. I think back on the "burong" with very deep emotions Apai Tuai George. If you recall what I said when we bid each other goodbye at the front door, "I really find it very hard to leave you." I meant every single word I said and every emotion I felt within me then and notihng has changed.
You do realise I shall never ever forget you for as long as there is breath in my body. You are something else, do you know that? And that beautifully hilarious wife of yours Alice; how I love you both xx
I travel back up to Fife tomorrow morning and I shall call you once I am able to speak at leisure. This should be sometime in the week, Monday to be precise.
I leave you with the affirmation that I am already plotting dates on my calendar for my next trip down South; December enroute Paris.
Until Monday my lovelies...
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
Currently I am still feeling the effects of my session at the hospital yesterday and as such I am not in a fit state to answer your beautiful letter of yesterday. I will give it a go tomorrow because I also thourly enjoyed those two days and one evening answering all your questions along with the input and comments from you yourself which in practically every instant would trigger off other events in my memory - all of which would start me off on yet another track.
More to-morrow.
Apai Tuai George
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Cliff
If I remember correctly the FUP for the transit to the Cameron Highlands was Tapah,I remember escorting one such convoy accompanied by a troop of The 12th Royal Lancers.Keep well,Roy
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Cliff
If I remember correctly the FUP for the transit to the Cameron Highlands was Tapah,I remember escorting one such convoy accompanied by a troop of The 12th Royal Lancers.Keep well,Roy
That's correct George. I would travel by ferry then train from Penang to Ipoh then by road to Tapah where all the children going to Slim School met to join the convoy . I remember that the 12th Royal lancers were our escort on one or more trips to school.
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Good morning Roy and Cliff,
Indu Sarawak Magdelene will be pleased by your comments re the journey which the students travelling to The Slim School up in the Cameron Highlands for those youngsters it must nave been quite an ordeal but then again as youngster's they may have considered that as being as an exciting adventure - the joys of being young.
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Good morning Roy and Cliff,
Indu Sarawak Magdelene will be pleased by your comments re the journey which the students travelling to The Slim School up in the Cameron Highlands for those youngsters it must nave been quite an ordeal but then again as youngster's they may have considered that as being as an exciting adventure - the joys of being young.
We all thought it was a big adventure and great fun. I loved that school, cant say that for some of my other ones though.
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Dear Apai Tuai George & Cliff,
Indeed it is interesting to see more and more information surfacing as this topic slowly makes progress. I apologise for my silence.
I have been otherwise occupied firstly with some personal matters regarding a situation one of my friends has found herself in and secondly I have been researching other Regiments' Veteran Associations for recollections of the Malaya days and of course their contact with the Iban Trackers and Sarawak Rangers. To date I've been able to note that a few of the comrades in arms have been reunited.
It is now gone midnight so I must try to get some sleep; although my brain is more interested in work my eyes are defeated!
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Selamat datai Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
Once again it is my delight to speak to you again and also to learn that you are finding yet more information daily from other Veterans from other regiments. I am sorry to learn also that your friend is still having problems and trust that you will be able to solve her difficulties.
As yet it would seem that to date there is no further information seemingly as to potential locations for the second platoon of Sarawak Rangers and I find that slightly alarming, primarily because as you and I know that there was a second one already being developed at Seginting and I cannot help wondering what on earth happened to it. Perhaps we will never know.
Give our regards to Mark and your daughter, and take care.
Apai Tuai George
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Selamat Lemai Apai Tuai George,
(Good Evening...)
Yes indeed regarding the 2nd platoon. Do you think it is safe to speculate that following the fate of the 1st Platoon it was sort of "dispersed" into the various regiments? I would imagine that was what had happened to it. I mean if it could happen to the 1st one when it was officially commissioned and received in the manner that it had been received, why would it seem a wild idea that it probably suffered similar fate as its predecessor?
This is where recording more recollections from various other regiments is key to piecing together this puzzle. I am also going to interview more Trackers and Rangers when I return to my homeland this Jan/Feb 2017. So much has surfaced in this 18months Apai Tuai George, I have a gut feeling that we will learn a great deal more.
I am planning to attend The Scottish Veterans Association meeting which is some time in November. Marc will be back in UK again by the 3rd week of November so I shall once more be free to "roam" (I can just see the twinkle in Alice's eyes at the word "roam"...)
My Lil One has gone off to a sleepover birthday party leaving Mummy to put her feet up with a glass of wine in hand attending to matters pertaining to her manuscript! Bliss...!!! Hahaha :-)
This is me for now Sire... I bid you and your good lady (and all present behind the curtain of internet obscurity) a fond goodnight.
Until perhaps tomorrow ;-)
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Selemat datai Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
Yes indeed, that is a very safe speculation and one that is something that I myself have also been giving some careful consideration; if ever you come across one of the Rangers you have mentioned previously namely Gundah akak Ader , 900305 who signed up on 25.3.1953 and terminated 28.3.1955 may well be able to confirm that possibility as his service would have ended well after the 1st Battalion The Manchester Regiment had returned to UK and in fact by September 1954 would have been firmly established in Berlin B.I.B so it might well be worth while making enquiry's on that line. It is a very definite possibility.
So having quaffed your wine and had a good nights sleep I too will say adieu for today.
Take care, Apai Tuai George.
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Sorry Lads,
Threw a 'wobbler' this a.m; Spent the morning at QA.
16 Manchester Regiment Lads + Cpl. Adrian anak Tangdang - Sarawal Rangers. 1951 - 1954 - Malaya.
May You All Rest In Peace
Apai Tuai George.
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Dear Apai George and All
I apologise for my long long silence. No I have not gone to Alaska as the lovely Alice speculated with regards to my absence hahaha...
I have however been very busy researching and also making contacts with Malaya veterans in Scotland. In fact I shall be travelling up to Inverness after the festivities to visit Fort George. More on that after my visit.
I shall return soon with more updates! Interesting ones too!!!
indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Hi there Roy,
I did respond to your recent Query re "AWOL" - but it would seem that it may have gone astray; hence this reminder for you.
I did mention my eye problem (I think) I am having difficult and following a trip to Specsaver,s they have advised me that I have a cataract problem and following further tests I will be having it sorted next Friday 31st March at St. Mary,s Hospital, Portsmouth and that hopefully that the other one will be dealt with in due course and then I will be like Nelson for a couple of days - Aye Aye -sir.
Trust that yourself and Jean are both OK,and that I should be available again in a couple of weeks or so .
Take care and hopefully may try to sort out where ibu Sarawak Magdelene may have disappeared to ?
Regards to all at the Forum who presumably are just as curious as I am.
George and Alice.
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Nama rita Apai Tuai George?
Here's hoping all is well.
A very quick note just to say I have resurrected from the depths of the unknown...
I was out in Sarawak in April 2017.
Much to relate.
Indu Sarawak Magdelene xx
I miss you and Alice tremendously. Shall call soon for a telephonic conversation!
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I am currently struggling trying to respond to your message, will try again later.
Apai tuai George
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Please Apai Tuai George...
There is no need to put yourself under unnecessary strain to respond to me on here. It is very good to hear yours and Alice's voices again after such a long time. My project has spiralled out of the proportion I had anticipated. It had, has and I know will be an emotional journey. As the days go by it is more apparent that I am fated to do this job.
I shall be putting pen to paper and have a letter sent down to you next week with details.
In the meantime...
Take care of yourself my one and only Apai Tuai George xx
My Love to both you and Alice xx
Indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Happy New Year 2018 Apai Tuai George, Alice and Everyone
I hope All's well. I'm truly truly sorry I've been absent!
I'll come back on tomorrow.
Indu Sarawak Magdelene x
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My dearest Apai Tuai George et All,
I once made a promise to a Malayan Emergency Veteran I would try my level best to get their story published in a UK tabloid.
In for a penny in for a pound? Well, below is a letter I had written and sent off to the Editor of The Daily Telegraph.
Fingers crossed it hits some sort of nerves with them and see the light of day in the letters column.
One wonders the criteria letters must meet to get published!
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Lest We Forget
Sir,
My husband and I recently took our 9-year-old daughter on a dedicated educational trip to the IWM North, Manchester. We did so whilst we holidayed in Lancashire visiting my father-in-law who is in his 100th year. What an impressive building the IWM North is too. But I was most disappointed with what greeted me at The Empire and Commonwealth section. The Asia region was most shocking.
When I read where it said, “Rubber from Malaya (Malaysia) was used to make tyres and dinghies,†I could not help but wonder why there was not more information. My thoughts went directly to post WWII National Service young lads sent to the depths of hostile tropical rainforests to fight Communist Terrorists (CTs) who terrorised and murdered British rubber planters alongside innocent local civilians (Malayan Emergency 1948 – 1960); the same again in the fatal freezing conditions of the Korean War (1950 – 1953) to name just a few. Thinking of all these precious young lives lost in Asian countries (a few too many lying in unmarked graves on foreign soil) during numerous bitter struggles against the communists just left a sour taste in my mouth. I walked away more than a little emotional. The entire experience left me somewhat frayed. One got the distinct impression that only India mattered.
-- Magdelene De Rozario
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As one of the 1st Bn of The Manchester Regiment who served in that conflict during what was referred to as The Malayan Emergency during which some 16 members of the Bn. died, their names are recorded in one of the Shrines.
A visit to the Regimental Chapel in Manchester Cathedral is recommended.
George .
I commend Magdelene for her letter
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Dear Apai Tuai George,
I do as my heart bids.
I'm glad to see you here.
Much love & affection as always to Alice & yourself.
Indu Sarawak Magdelene xoxo
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Gurrently im awaiting replacement for new hearing aids - possibly about a further week or so !!
I understand that you are/were having health problems and possibly transport similarly .
At least SUN has come out down here, have had a run out with Alice morning otherwise -NTR
Take care
Apai tuai George.
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Dear Apai Tuai George,
I am going back to Kuching next Sunday 11th Feb. for Chinese New Year Family Reunion Dinner. But knowing me I will be mixing it with work. I have somewhere in my photo file a photograph of the late Cpl Adrian's headstone in the Heroes Cemetery in Kuching. This was taken last April when I was back there for the Anniversary Dinner. I will post the photo on here at some point, please bear with me.
I hope all is well.
Much love and affection always to you both...
Indu Sarawak Magdelene
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Indu Sarawak Magdelene,
Did you ever receive a copy of the New One done from Bob from the Regimental Chapel from Manchester Cathedral ? - that would be a great one to include in The Heroes Cemetery in Kuching.
Enjoy your trip and give them my best wishes .
Apai Tuai George.
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Dear Apai Tuai George (nice to see that you still use this name!)
I know this will come as a surprise to you. I have lost touch with you for some years now. The Sarawak Rangers Veterans Association which I formed sometime in 2011/12 has been deregistered due to some problem. The new SRVA formed is not related to me.
How are you keeping? The last time we were in touch you had some health problem and had difficulty using the computers.
I also noticed that Magdelene de Rozario is also on my pet subject - the Iban Trackers and Sarawak Rangers. The book I am writing, hopefully will be launched in July this year. Remember you gave me the Iban door sign to your office in Kroh and you also gave me the explaination/write up on the door sign? I cannot find the 2nd page of that write up. I would like to include that in my book as well.
Well Apai Tuai George, so far for now.
Lt Col Robert Rizal Abdullah
(Did I call myself as "Apai Robert Rizal?)
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Dear Apai Tuai George,
I am wondering whether I ever update you on my project of bringing the remains of the 21 Iban Trackers and Sarawak Rangers KIA in Malaya back to Kuching? Op Mai Pulai was finally honoured on 27 July 2011 - 3 years after I had started it.
Apai Rizal