2nd/6th Manchesters - member lists for groups or companies?

[CHMrels]

Am on the trail of my grandfather C H Martin who was with 2nd/6th Manchesters and with 66th Division. 

Does anyone know if there are any lists I can refer to which would tell me which platoon or company he would have been with?

Thank you.

CHMRels

[kingo]

I am not aware of what would be known as a "Nominal Roll" of the 2/6th Battalion. Having looked through the Battalions War Diary it lists the Officers and Men who were Killed In Action but not anyone who wasn't. There were several Men killed who's numbers were within a couple of digits of your Grandfathers but, no mention of him. It would be extremely rare for other ranks to be mentioned in the diaries unless they were recommended for some form of award. Sorry I couldn't be of more help and good luck with your research.

[CHMrels]

Thanks for replying Kingo.

I take it there wouldn't be a list for POWs that might give such detail either?

Thanks.

CHMrels

[charlie]

Probably only the ICRC records, but as you already know, in your Grandfathers case the information has not been recorded.
Charlie

[CHMrels]

Update - his paybook turned up within the family.  Turns out he was with "A Company" !

[PhilipG]

CHMrels,

I see you are "on the trail of your grandfather".   As a matter of interest, I wonder if you are researching the Pte C.H.Martin of the 2/6th Manchesters who was a Lewis gunner and is quoted on page 230 of the undermentioned book?

The Kaiser's Battle : Martin Middlebrook: Allen Lane: London: 1978 : ISBN 0 7139 1081x

It would appear that what is written is an extract from the battalion's War Diary (PRO WO95/3144), although you may already have seen that  document and the book, of course.  Regards, PhilipG.

[CHMrels]

Hi,

Thank you, yes we have the book "The Kaiser's Battle" and also Hartley's later book with the same quote.  I haven't seen the original document from the War Diary however.  Last year we also uncovered a letter he had written to Mr Liddle which is also posted here but on a different thread.

I notice in the news this week that Martin Middlebrook's collection has been donated to the IWM and I still have hope that the audio of my grandfather's interview could still surface.  One of his daughters is still alive and it would be amazing for her if it could be found.

Regards
CHMRels

[CHMrels]

PS: I've now downloaded the war diary!

[CHMrels]

Having read through some sections of the 2/6th Manchester War Diary, it does answer a long-standing question.  As a family we had wanted to know how close to the front line my grandfather had been at Ypres (he was in A company). I'm just adding here a little extract in case it is of use to anyone else - I'm not sure how much of the war diaries have been transcribed and appear on other websites etc....

5th October 1917
"The battalion marched from Brandhoek through Ypres and bivouacked rested(?) in field on left of Ypres-Menin Road and proceeded by track to 'Potsdam' trench by various tracks to front line in relief of 41st Australian Inf. Battn (3rd delta-W 11th B side).  The line held D17 C2.9 to D17 C95.50 ref map (?)   1 - 10000  Consisted of 4 trenches cut by Australians and affording fair cover from shell fire.  3 Coys were in front line 'B' - 'C' - 'D' with 'A' in close support.
The weather was wet and the ground very heavy.  The line was held without difficulty - no counter attack being made - shelling was persistent and a certain number of casualties was sustained.
Night of 6th/7th October
The battalion was relieved by the 27th Battn Australian Infantry and was withdrawn to left slope of Hill 40 at dawn on 7th October.
Two companies - B & D - were attached to 2/8th Manchester regiment under the command of Lt Col ?Huntbath.  These companies took up their position on a line D20 b9.3 to D20 b2.9.
The battalion less 2 companies took up a position of west slope of Hill 40......."

I can add a little more if that day is of particular interest to anyone else.

CHMRels 

[CHMrels]

PS: Parts of this are also on page 207 and 208  of John Hartley's book but I was after more specific detail of the activity of each company

[CHMrels]

In case anyone else interested in the particular movements of A Company:-

War Diary Sept 1917:-
"During the month of September the battalion was out of the line and employed on coast defense (COXYDE BAINS) and in training, with the exception of "A" Coy who were attached for 3 weeks to 432nd Field Coy RE.  The weather was exceptionally fine and some excellent company battalion and brigade training was accomplished.  Particular attention was given to the latest form of attack or advance on an enemy position in a shelled area and a considerable amount of practice in advancing behind a barrage in depth formations was carried out....................."

Though I guess A Company didn't do that particular exercise as they were somewhere else!

[gundog1]

In Oct 1917 The 66 Div fought in the same actions as the Australian 3rd Div. There are some references to the 66 Div and the 199 brigade in their war Diaries . It is well worth visiting the https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/awm4/  ( Infantry ) The range of documents including maps and aerial photographs are extensive. the Australian seemed to have kept everything .The 37,38,39,40 and 41 battalion battle field reports make compelling reading .


The 3rd Australian Div war diary entry on the 66 div relief on the 5th Oct:

"The weather has become showerery and roads and tracks are rapidly becoming impassable.
The enemy are unusually inactive. 
The 199 and 198 brigades arrived in the area during the day, the 199th brigade took over the front line and the 9th A.I. moved to the Ypres south.  The 10th and 11th A.I. brigade each left one battalion in close support of the 199th battalion and withdrew to Ypres  on the arrival of the 198th battalion.  All these moves were carried out with difficulty because the 66th division troops were so inexperienced that they had to be manhandled into their positions.  There were practically no casualties from hostile action."

[gundog1]

The above overlaid map is the position on the 7th Oct