Author Topic: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.  (Read 28946 times)

saintconor

  • Guest
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2009, 09:06:53 PM »
Themonsstar, I was wondering if you could be so kind to check the roll for my Pte Mercer?

Thanks



Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2009, 01:15:58 PM »
I have a GSM 2 bars "Palestine 1945-48" and "Cyprus" to Lt R.J.McWilliam Manch Regt. It is in a mounted group with a 39/45 Star, Africa Star, Defence medal, War medal and QEII LSGC named to WO.CL2.R J McWilliam RASC.
R J McWilliam was commissioned as a 2 Lt in the Manch. Reg on 25 Aug 1945. I can only assume he reverted to the ranks and later on a gained his LSGC for his service before and after his officer service. The group looks good to me, so these odd medals do exist. Does anyone know anything else about R J McWilliam? Any more information most gratefully received.

sphinx

  • Guest
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2009, 01:23:21 PM »
Bob,

Should this have been posted in my thread on Cyprus medals?

Interesting to see a GSM named to a Manchester Regiment officer with 2 clasps that the Manchesters are not entitled to!!.

I would be interested to see his details of service unravelled then we could work it out.

regards

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2009, 10:16:14 AM »
Sphinx,
Yes sorry. This should probably be under the Cyprus post. I was just browsing through older postings and the Palestine 45-48 triggered my memory. Would you like to move it over?
Best wishes.
Bob

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2009, 10:33:11 AM »
Sphinx,
I forgot to add that whilst R J McWilliam would have been a Manchester for the "Palestine 1945-48" bar he may not have been a Manchester for the "Cyprus" bar. He could have been (back?) in the RASC by then and just added this bar to his 'Manchester' medal.
Bob

sphinx

  • Guest
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2009, 01:34:43 PM »
Bob,

The Manchesters did not get the post war "Palestine 1945-48" clasp either.

They got the 1936-39 "Palestine" clasp.

Thats why I am intrigued to know why it is named to him in the Manchesters.

regards

Offline themonsstar

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,468
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2009, 11:24:04 AM »
352838 Lt R J McWilliam Manch Regt is on the Medal roll for the  Palestine 1945-48 medal GSM & Clasp issue in 1951

IVB1488  7/11/51, BM2295/51/3, BM/2972/48/2/61.

sphinx

  • Guest
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2009, 12:02:47 PM »
Roy,

Is he the only one?

or
Are there more?

regards

Offline themonsstar

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,468
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2009, 01:32:17 PM »
There are seventeen officers and other ranks for the Palestine roll 45/48.

sphinx

  • Guest
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2009, 04:56:02 PM »
Thanks Roy,

Thats amazing

Even British Battles & Medals doesn't have that recorded!!

Can I take it that the GSM rolls have now been released into the public domain at the NA?

regards

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2009, 09:25:08 PM »
Although an excellent book and the foremost reference book on British Medals, "British Medals and Battles" cannot record every medal awarded to small "detachments. For example several Manchester men were awarded the "N W Persia" bar to the GSM but BB&M does not mention them.
However BB&M does mention that:
1) The Manchesters were generally not awarded India General Service Medals 1895-1902 but several officers and men of the second battn. were involved in two or three of the separate campaigns (eg. Punjab Frontier 1897-98 and Tirah 1897-98) and medals were received by them.
2) The Manchesters did not get the bar "Abor 1911-12" for the IGS 1908 but two men in the telegraph company were awarded it;
3) Although the Egypt 1882 medal roll shows no Manchesters as having been awarded a bar, three men ( M Meek-1st Battn and J Plevin-2nd Battn + a n other) received the "Tel El Kebir" bar. Meek had just been in Afghanistan with the 63rd when he was send back to the UK for discharge having served his time. When he got back to the UK he was put straight back on a ship to take part in the Egyptian campaign and fought at Tel el Kebir before he could rejoin his regiment;
4) The 63rd medal roll for Afghanistan 1878-1880 shows all no bar medals. However BB&M states that some 4 bar medals do exist. Does anyone know where? I have a medal to the 63rd with bar "Kandahar" but apart from confirming that he was in Kandahar two days after the battle I have yet to confirm that he was entitled to the bar. I also have a Kabul to Kandahar Star to the 63rd but I have doubts about this medal.
Oh the joys of collecting!
Bob

rir179

  • Guest
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2009, 01:54:45 PM »
Hi Roy,

Can you look for anything on the following two Manch lads, Both 2nd Bn and only a difference of 8 digits between them:

8852 Pte George Baker 2/Manch
8844 Pte James Henry 2/Manch

Grateful for your time.

Regards  Bob

CrazyRach

  • Guest
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2014, 09:27:30 AM »
My boyfriends grandfather has a general service medal with a Palestine bar. He was eventually a sergeant with the Manchester regiment. His name was Alfred Henry Medcalf.

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2021, 04:32:30 PM »
Gents,
It's been a while but I have finally got to the bottom of why Lt R.J. McWilliam, The Manchester Regiment received a two bar GSM.
As mentioned above, he got his "PALESTINE 1945-48" clasp as an officer in The Manchester Regiment but got his "CYPRUS" clasp while in another unit.
All comes to he who waits.
Bob B

Robert James McWilliam was born in Aberdeen in 1920. While Robert was still young he attended the Queen Victoria School, Dunblane, which has been looking after the children of UK Armed Forces personnel since 1908 (his father had died). Unsurprisingly therefore, Robert chose to join the Army and on 14 January 1936, aged 15, he attested as a ‘Boy’ for ‘General Service’ in the Army being posted two days later to The Army Technical School for Boys at Chepstow. While still at the school he was appointed private (No T/71058) in the Royal Army Service Corps (RASC) in November 1938.
   On 28 February 1939 McWilliam was posted to 1 Heavy Report shop (Motor Transport), RAOC (HRS) embarking for the Western Desert, Middle East in February 1942.
   In June 1944 McWilliam moved to HQ in Malta remaining there until September when he returned to the UK. Having been promoted corporal in November 1944, that same month McWilliam was posted to the Officer Cadet Training Unit being appointed to a commission in the Manchester Regiment on 24 August 1945 (The London Gazette, 21 September 1945) and posted to 24 Machine Gun Training Company. At this time his records noted: ‘Military Conduct – Exemplary. Conduct – As the result of the diligence and loyalty he has shown during this service he has been awarded a commission.” For his service in the Second World War McWilliam was awarded the 1939-45 Star, Africa Star, Defence and War Medals which were issued in September 1948.
   In October 1945 2nd Lieutenant McWilliam attended a Western Command weapon training course before being posted to 2nd Battalion Cheshire Regiment on 30 November just prior to embarking to join the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force in December, disembarking in the Middle East on the 20th when his demobilisation was deferred by one year.
   2nd Lt McWilliam was posted to The Middle East, Egypt and Palestine and, while serving with 2nd Cheshires as ‘Acting Captain’ in The Manchester Regiment, he was awarded the General Service Medal 1918-2007 (GSM) with clasp ‘PALESTINE 1945-48’, qualification for which required only one or more days’ service in Palestine between September 1945 and June 1948. There are some 17 officers and other ranks on the roll for the Manchester Regiment with this clasp – quite possibly they were attending a course at the Middle East Staff College in Haifa (as mentioned on some of the entries). In April 1947, he was posted back to The Manchester Regiment and embarked for the UK having been demobilised on 13 August 1947. However, on 8 December he re-enlisted, for five years in the Regulars and seven years in the Reserves, as a private in the RASC and was posted to their Depot Battalion, Thetford, Norfolk being promoted sergeant the same day. He was promoted Acting Company Quarter Master Sergeant in February 1950 with the 3rd Training Battalion and substantive CQMS on 1 April 1952.
   Having been promoted WOII in October 1952, in December 1952 he was posted to Cyprus as part of the Middle East Land Forces. As a result of this service, he was awarded the clasp ‘CYPRUS’ his GSM. In December 1952 CQMS McWilliam was deployed to Malta, spending time in Egypt in 1955 before returning to Cyprus and then to the UK in November 1955. In November 1958 he was posted to the British Army of the Rhine (BAOR), having been awarded his Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal with gratuity the previous year (Army List 35 of 1957). On 10 April 1959 he re-enlisted at Muenchen Gladbach for a further two years in the RASC and remained with the BAOR until 9 January 1963 before returning to the UK, being finally discharged on 5 February 1963. In total R.J. McWilliam had served 23 years and 326 days in the Army. At the time his address was given as Seaton Avenue, Aberdeen.
   Robert James McWilliam died in August 1992 in hospital in Gateshead

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Medal Rolls to the Manchester Regt.
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2021, 04:35:28 PM »
McWilliam's medals