Frederick John Mills

[Grumpyhumpy]

Hello,
My Grandfather served through the war I believe in the Manchester Regiment, he was in Malta, Africa and Italy as far as his medals tell me.
I applied for his service record with the MOD and all they have for him is his Territorial service record from 1926 to 1930.
They have told me that this is the only record they have.
Is there any way of finding out anything more?
Does the Regiment keep any records?

[themonsstar]

Hi GH

The MOD did the same with my grandfather, they could only find his service record from 1920-1925 and said there was no record for his service covering 1938-1945.

Was your G/F with the Manch Regt TF (1926-1930)

The 8th Battalion was in Malta and Italy in WW2 also do you have his Number as this may help.

The photo shows a soldier from the Manchester Regt wearing the medal ribbon for the:
Africa Star (8th Army or 1st Army or North Africa 1942â€"43)
Between 10 June 1940 and 12 May 1943 British forces fought in North Africa against the Germans and Italians, who had taken control of large areas of Egypt, Libya and Tunisia and therefore also of the Suez Canal and the sea lanes approaching it. During the desert conflict the balance of power alternated between the two sides, until the British eventually secured victory on 12 May 1943 when the remaining German forces surrendered at Tunis. Some historians consider the British victory over the German forces in North Africa to have been the turning point in the war which led to the eventual defeat of Germany.

The institution of the Africa Star was announced on 8 July 1943 and in August it was announced that the first uniform ribbons would be issued to qualifying personnel later in that year. The medals themselves were not intended to be available until after the cessation of hostilities. Some ribbon issues to overseas troops were delayed, but many had been received by the end of 1943 and were worn by recipients throughout the remainder of the war.

Three clasps were instituted, the North Africa 1942â€"43 Clasp, the 8th Army Clasp and the 1st Army Clasp, of which only the first to be earned may be worn on the ribbon of the Africa Star.

The Africa Star was awarded for a minimum of one day's service in an operational area of North Africa between 10 June 1940 and 12 May 1943. The operational area includes the whole of the area between the Suez Canal and the Strait of Gibraltar, together with Malta, Abyssinia, Kenya, the Sudan, both Somalilands and Eritrea. Areas not bordering on the Mediterranean only qualified for the Africa Star between 10 June 1940 and 27 November 1941 inclusive.

Royal Navy and Merchant Navy personnel qualified for the award of the Africa Star through service in the Mediterranean between these two dates, or for service in the campaigns in Abyssinia, Somaliland and Eritrea between 10 June 1940 and 27 September 1941. Merchant Navy personnel also qualified with service in operations off the Moroccan coast between 8 November 1942 and 12 May 1943. For sea-going service there was no condition that the 1939-45 Star should already have been earned before the Africa Star could be awarded.
Army personnel had to enter North Africa on the establishment of an operational unit, while service in Abyssinia, Sudan, Somaliland and Eritrea also qualified.
Air Force personnel had to land in or have flown over any of the operational areas. The Africa Star was also awarded to crews of transport aircraft that flew over certain specified routes.
Members of the Australian Imperial Force qualified for the award of the Africa Star for service in Syria between 8 June and 11 July 1941.
Service in West Africa did not qualify for the award of the Africa Star

Roy

[Grumpyhumpy]

Hi Roy,

My G/F enrolled with the Royal regiment of Artillery (Lancs) (T.A.), and was with the 207 Lancs Battery as a Gunner.

I have added a photo of the medals we have and some other items that were kept.

I have not yet been able to find his service number or even which regiment he was with.

Thanks.

[mack]

hiya GH.
have a look on the rim of his territorial medal[green+yellow ribbon],his name and number should be stamped on it.

mack

[charlie]

If the chevrons are your Grandfathers he served for at least 5 years but less than 6 during WW2, 1 chevron was awarded for each complete year of service.  The Efficiency Medal was for 12 years service with the TA, war service counted double, it is most probable that it was awarded for his service during and after the war. I believe (but I stand to be corrected) it was awarded for continuous service, apart from the period between 1939 and 1950, so his earlier service would not count.

Charlie

[Grumpyhumpy]

Hi Mack,

His name and service number was on the side of his Teritorial medal 3531528, would this have been his number for all of his service?

Would it be possible to find out what unit he was in from his number?

Thanks

[charlie]

It's a Number issued by the Manchesters. His Regiment, and I think battalion, should also be on the rim of the medal

Charlie

[mack]

hiya GH
ime not that clued up on WW2 enlistments,but ime fairly sure your grandfather was already serving when the war began.
there was a young soldier,3531557 ernest barden aged 17 who died on 5-9-1939 in england while serving with the 2/9th manchesters,as you can see,his service number is 29 numbers after your grandfathers.

mack
ps my guess he was in the 8th or 9th manchesters

[mack]

hiya GH
the ribbons on the first two medals need swapping round,the red,white and green ribbon is for the Italy star and the orange,green and black ribbon is for the defense medal,looking at his ribbon bar,he has two medals missing,the Africa star and the 1939-45 star

mack

[Grumpyhumpy]

Thanks everyone for all your help, it would have been nice to have had his service record from the MOD so I could have tracked his campaign but I'm sure he went through Malta as my Mum has still got some Maltese lace that he brought back after the war ended.

From what I understand he never talked about the war like so many others but knowing he was a gunner that explains why he was a bit deaf.

I am still keen to find more out about Africa and Italy.

Thanks again.

[Robert Bonner]

To judge from the photograph, his medals, the countries you believe he served in and the pieces of family history you have unearthed, I don't think that there can be much doubt that he served with the 8th Ardwicks.
I suggest that you should read 'The Ardwick Boys went to Malta to get more information.

[Grumpyhumpy]

Thanks Robert, I have just ordered it.

[themonsstar]

The Manchester Regiment were a Machine Gun Regiment some times other soldier would call them Gunner as in machine gunners.

There are 3 cap badges in the pic two to the Manchester Regt one looks like the pre 1922 Manchester Regt cap badge and the other is the  post 1923 badge, the other one is Royal Pioneer Corps but it could be to the Labour Corps 1917-1922. 

[Grumpyhumpy]

Hi,
I have read the book "the Ardwick boys went to Malta" and my mother is convinced her Dad is in a photo standing next to a gun during a training exercise.
This make me all the more sure he was there. It's a shame the MOD doesn't have his records.
My next thing will be a trip to the museum.

[Robert Bonner]

Ian,
I have written separately to you regarding the photograph in the archives.  However don't make a trip to the museum for the time being as it is temporarily closed due  to adjacent major building activity.