Author Topic: Patrick McGuire footballer  (Read 3572 times)

IM75

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Patrick McGuire footballer
« on: September 02, 2015, 11:09:57 AM »
Hi all

I wondered if anyone could offer some further assistance regarding former Manchester City, United and Hurst footballer Patrick "Paddy" McGuire, who is reported to have died during the Battle of the Somme?

It is widely-reported that the following casualty is our man, however, there are a couple of slight discrepancies that I would like to clear up if possible before completing his profile page.

Rank:Private
Service No:24744
Date of Death:12/10/1916Age:28
Regiment/Service:Manchester Regiment 17th Bn.
Panel Reference: Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.
Memorial:THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information:Son of the late Martin and Bridget McGuire; husband of Maria McGuire, of 6, Blair St., Oldham Rd., Manchester.

SDGW, Medal Rolls and MIC all record McGuire as a private, however, the reports of his death all state that he had been appointed lance-corporal. There are also numerous match reports during his time playing wartime football for Grimsby Town that state he is a L/Cpl.

I've also just come across a post by Bobpike on the john westwood thread (http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=7308.15) that includes the line:

McGuire P   L/S   Manch   17   Thiepval 13A & 14C

I presume this is lance-sergeant and was wondering if anybody had any further info where this may have come from?

The last reference to McGuire playing for Grimsby is from April 1916. The Lincolnshire Echo (among others) then report his death as a L/Cpl in November 1916.

I have read one publication which claims the above casualty is NOT the footballer, however, I am unable to find any other record of a Patrick McGuire in the census records or ww1 records. Putting the above discrepancies to one side, everything else seems to confirm that it is the same individual.

It would be great if anyone could offer any further info.

Many thanks

Iain

Edit: I've now confirmed that this is the individual in question, having also found found clarification of his death of the Football Association's war fund records.



« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 07:29:38 AM by IM75 »

sphinx

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Re: Patrick McGuire footballer
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 03:33:06 PM »
Iain,

L/Cpl. is not a rank, it is an appointment.  His rank was Private.

Through experience of many such anomolies I suggest you ignore the differences between one report being Pte. and another being L/Cpl. as both are correct in their own way.

As for whether its your man or not I cannot assist, sorry.

regards

Offline mack

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Re: Patrick McGuire footballer
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 05:39:04 PM »
there was a small report in the Manchester evening news saying he had been killed with the manchesters,i saw it many years ago,i tried searching for it in the british newspaper archives,but couldn't find it.

there is something mentioned about him in this newspaper on 8-11-1916,but I don't have a subscription

mack ;D

IM75

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Re: Patrick McGuire footballer
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 06:47:31 PM »
Iain,

L/Cpl. is not a rank, it is an appointment.  His rank was Private.

Through experience of many such anomolies I suggest you ignore the differences between one report being Pte. and another being L/Cpl. as both are correct in their own way.

As for whether its your man or not I cannot assist, sorry.

regards

Sphinx - Thanks for pointing that out, it's not something that I previously took into consideration. So far I've not actually come across the anomaly relating to l/cpl, although I have with l/sgt a number of times. I will definitely keep that in mind from now on though, thanks.
Taking everything into consideration then, I think it's the same individual.

Mack - I've got a number of newspaper articles concerning both McGuire's death and his wartime games with Grimsby Town. I can provide copies f them if you're interested. I'm also waiting on some stuff from the Athletic News and confirmation that McGuire's widow received money from the Football Association War Fund following his death (data are still being collated from the FA minutes book).

Many thanks for your all your help, it's very much appreciated.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 06:51:33 PM by IM75 »

sphinx

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Re: Patrick McGuire footballer
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 06:57:59 PM »
Ian,

As a member of a long line of Hurst families I can suggest that you contact the current club that Hurst FC became and that's Ashton United F.C.

There may be a photo of him on their club wall!  You never know.

regards

timberman

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Re: Patrick McGuire footballer
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 07:43:08 PM »
Hi Ian

Welcome to the forum.
With regards to a photo there is one on this
web site. I think the write up is by you?

http://www.footballandthefirstworldwar.org/patrick-mcguire-manchester-city/

Hopefully it can be confirmed he was in the Manchester's

Timberman

IM75

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Re: Patrick McGuire footballer
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 08:29:12 PM »
Hi Ian

Welcome to the forum.
With regards to a photo there is one on this
web site. I think the write up is by you?

http://www.footballandthefirstworldwar.org/patrick-mcguire-manchester-city/

Hopefully it can be confirmed he was in the Manchester's

Timberman

Hi Timberman

Yes that's my site - the photo comes from a 1914/15 City team picture I managed to get hold of. I've not found any others yet, but I've been meaning to get in touch with Ashton United to see if they have anything from his time at Hurst Cross.

Thanks alll  :)

Offline mack

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Re: Patrick McGuire footballer
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2015, 05:39:46 PM »
can we keep the bad language down on this thread please,"manchester city" isn't the kind of language that people like hearing ;D ;D

mack ;D