3rd Manchester - researching Fred Whipp - 1917 - help with interpreting records

[whittj12]

I am researching a soldier, Fred Whipp. I have his service records but they are very difficult to read and I am struggling to interpret them. This is what I know:

Fred was from Middleton and he was in the Manchester Regiment, Regtl No 57082, rank Private. There is reference to his being in the 3rd Manchester Reg (though there is a mostly unreadable letter sent to him post discharge which I think says "late of 12 Batt":
 
He enlisted on 15 February 1917, into 50th T Res Batt (though the stamp says 51st) and was discharged  on 12/12/18. 

There is reference to his discharge from the 3rd Manchester and also to Queen Marys Hospital, Whalley and Abrham Peel. We had understood he had been shell shocked.


His military history sheet records as follows:
Home 15.2.17 to 17.1.18
BG2? (or possibly 73G2) 18.1.18 to 19.3.18
Home 20.3.18 to 12.12.18

– what is "BG2" on the second line?

There is also reference possibly to "62 Manchester B Boy (presumably B Coy) and later re 3rd Manchester,  Abrham Peel Hospital: "Discharged para 392 5VI K.R 2(B) 1" - although the last few letters/numbers are very difficult to read.
 
Any ideas with interpretation and where he might have spent his time?
Thanks!

[mack]

I cant seem to find his service record on ancestry.

mack

[whittj12]

It is definitely on Ancestry - that is where I got it from. You might need to look for "whiff" because sometimes the spelling goes awry. I will try to attach a word doc to this post with copies of the main documents...


Thanks

[whittj12]

Not sure if my previous document attached correctly...however I checked again on ancestry and found Fred using the following details:

Fred Whipp
Birth abt 1899
Document year 1917
British Army WW1 Service Records 1914- 1920
Residence: 36 Florence Street Middlesex (in fact the document reads Middleton)

Hope that helps!

[mack]

I am researching a soldier, Fred Whipp. I have his service records but they are very difficult to read and I am struggling to interpret them. This is what I know:

Fred was from Middleton and he was in the Manchester Regiment, Regtl No 57082, rank Private. There is reference to his being in the 3rd Manchester Reg (though there is a mostly unreadable letter sent to him post discharge which I think says "late of 12 Batt":
 
He enlisted on 15 February 1917, into 50th T Res Batt (though the stamp says 51st) and was discharged  on 12/12/18. 

There is reference to his discharge from the 3rd Manchester and also to Queen Marys Hospital, Whalley and Abrham Peel. We had understood he had been shell shocked.


His military history sheet records as follows:
Home 15.2.17 to 17.1.18
BG2? (or possibly 73G2) 18.1.18 to 19.3.18
Home 20.3.18 to 12.12.18

– what is "BG2" on the second line?

There is also reference possibly to "62 Manchester B Boy (presumably B Coy) and later re 3rd Manchester,  Abrham Peel Hospital: "Discharged para 392 5VI K.R 2(B) 1" - although the last few letters/numbers are very difficult to read.
 
Any ideas with interpretation and where he might have spent his time?
Thanks!

BG2 should read BEF[british expeditionary force]his letter in his records is an enquiry to the army concerning his character reference,without this reference,he will be lucky to find a job,your correct about his battalion,it was the 12th manchesters,he was in B.coy,he was sent home on 19th march 1918 with shell shock,he was awarded silver war badge NoB61426

mack

[mack]

abram peel hospital,leeds rd,bradford was for soldiers suffering from shell shock.

mack

[whittj12]

Thank you for your help. Very interesting. Do you know where the BEF was stationed in January - March 1918 and what might have happened to him just prior to 19 March 1918?

Would I be able to find any photos of him in the 12th do you think?

[harribobs]

The BEF were the initial force sent out to france. When the Germans attacked and the BEF were almost wiped out, the whole army forces available were then sent out and many more brought back from coloianial duties including many local regiments, Indian, Afri. can, South Africa, NZ and Australia ( and more)

Another BEF was sent out in 1939..0

March 1918 was the German last assault in the Great War, operation Kaiserschlact, a very effective attack. the 12th where in the Havincourt area of the Somme and suffered

[whittj12]

I have now read some of the 12th war diaries in the days leading up to Fred's return home on 19 March - no obvious mass shelling. Am I right in thinking that the last assault that you refer to started on 21 March? In which case Fred was probably quite lucky to get sent home with shell shock - it possibly saved his life.

Do you know what happened to soldiers who experienced shell shock - were they usually sent home straight away (i.e. on the day or day after they were exposed) or could it have been quite a few days later when it was realised that they were not getting better? Just trying to pin point from the war diaries the likely date he was shelled.

[mack]

you are unlikely to pinpoint the exact date,also he may not have been shelled,neuresthenia/shell shock isn't always caused by shelling,the environment the soldier is in,is enough to cause shock.

mack