Bury Grammar School old boys on 1st July 1916

[Mark Hone]

In preparation for the centenary next year I wonder if anyone has additional information about any of these old boys of BGS who served in the three City Battalions involved in the attack on Montauban on 1st July 1916. I have photos and obituaries of all those who died, except F.S. Harding whose picture has so far proved elusive.
16th Battalion:
Private EM Blacow
Private (later Sergeant) Hubert Dawson (killed 1917)
Private HH Hayes
Private SW Ramsbottom
Private (later Sergeant) Roger Smith MM (killed later on the Somme)
17th Battalion:
Private FS Harding (killed 1st July)
Private H Howarth (killed 1st July)
Private J Howarth
Private AE Nuttall
19th Battalion:
Private S Ashworth
Private JH Bott (killed 1st July)
Private J Halstead
Corporal Frank Jackson
Private HI Lord (killed 1918)
Private Tom Shaw (killed later in the Somme)
Private J. Wilson
The attack on Montauban will be the subject of a special school assembly on 1st July 2016 and will feature on our Centenary Tour 'Swans on the Somme'.
Any information, however scanty,will be much appreciated and helps to build up the jigsaw. Thanks very much.

[Tim Bell]

Mark,
This looks like a great project and I hope you continue to build on the memory of these men with their successors.
It's a bit odd the 18th Battalion was not represented by BGS old boys.  They were the support Battalion at Montauban.

It's especially strange that I've identified no men from 18th Battalion as old boys of Manchester Warehouseman and Clerks' Orphans School.  I think this can only be a coincidence.

Tim

[Mark Hone]

Actually we did have an old boy serving in 18th battalion: Private Ernest Howarth, brother of Herbert who was killed on 30th July 1916 and is buried at Delville Wood. He is the only one I am aware of, though, and the other City Battalions each had several old boys in their ranks. The Howarths are one of two sets of BGS brothers who died on the Somme, the others being Sergeant Roger Smith of 16th battalion and his brother Lt. Alec Smith of the LFs who died near Mametz Wood.
Herbert was exhumed and reburied at Delville Wood but on the Exhumation Form it gives the map reference of his original burial simply as T.13.C. He was incorrectly recorded originally on this form as 'Howard'. At least one other 18th Battalion man killed on 30th July, 10762 Private T.D. (actually S.D.) Booth, was discovered in the same location and reburied at Delville Wood. Can someone help to pinpoint the original grave location?

[mack]

sgt 6683 roger smith[A.coy] was in a forward post with two other men,the germans had been shelling the 16th batts positions for two hour,after the shelling stopped,a party was sent out to check on the post,they found the remains of three men at the spot but could not positively ID them,they collected togethor what they could find and buried them.
MM won at maricourt
resided 13 monmouth ave,bury
clerk for lancs+yorks bank


cpl 8441 ernest,mawdsley blacow was in the 17th manchesters
his arm was smashed by a piece of shrapnel in july 1916,he was discharged as physically unfit from whalley hospital on 5th may 1917
worked as a clerk for the lancs+yorks bank,spring gardens,manchester
residence the willows,lime grove,preston,later moved to 10 riding st,southport

mack

[Mark Hone]

Thanks for that, Mack. Roger Smith does have a grave, at Warlencourt Cemetery. I've never visited it so don't know if the three are buried together, one headstone etc.

[mack]

Thanks for that, Mack. Roger Smith does have a grave, at Warlencourt Cemetery. I've never visited it so don't know if the three are buried together, one headstone etc.

only sgt smith is in the grave mark,its very likely that the remains of all three are buried there.

mack

[mack]

signallers 6232 Hubert dawson[A.coy] and 6203 Edward aldcroft chalked their names and their battalion on the two captured artillery pieces at montauban.

mack

[Mark Hone]

The names of the 'chalkers' are given elsewhere as Privates Aldous and Price, although the late Graham Maddocks in his book on Montauban recognises in a note that other sources record Dawson and Aldcroft. Were all four involved?

[Robert Bonner]

The 16th Bn war diary of the day states:

Captured two guns. Nos 62232 Pte Dawson & A6203 Pte Aldcroft went forward and wrote their own names & the name of the battalion on them. Also about 100 prisoners.

[mack]

The names of the 'chalkers' are given elsewhere as Privates Aldous and Price, although the late Graham Maddocks in his book on Montauban recognises in a note that other sources record Dawson and Aldcroft. Were all four involved?

hiya mark.
there was nobody called Aldous with the battalion,and there were only two men called price,7180 charles price was sniped two weeks previous and 7572 Richard price[B.coy] was wounded in the attack.

it was just ptes aldcroft+dawson,both A.coy signallers.

mack

[themonsstar]

If its the same Dawson, he became the CO of the 8th (Ardwick) Bn in the 193Os and was awarded the MM.

[mack]

If its the same Dawson, he became the CO of the 8th (Ardwick) Bn in the 193Os and was awarded the MM.

he was killed on 23rd april 1917 roy.

mack

[mack]

If its the same Dawson, he became the CO of the 8th (Ardwick) Bn in the 193Os and was awarded the MM.

that's 6368 Samuel,percy dawson[known as percy]

mack

[Mark Hone]

Thanks very much. I wonder where the Aldous and Price story came from? Hubert Dawson was indeed killed at Arras. His photograph and newspaper obituary were pasted in his scrapbook by his school friend and fellow Manchester Pal Tom Cartman. As described elsewhere, the scrapbook was miraculously rescued from a rubbish skip in Blackpool and a digitized version can now be seen on our school website. It will soon be one of the treasures featured on our new Bury Grammar School Archives website. Watch this space. 

[mack]

the original source was a incorrect report in the newspapers,they said that captain Morton Johnson had chalked the 16th batts name on the guns,Lt nash said that capt Johnson did no such thing,he sent two of his men to do this Aldous+price.

mack