My introduction and questions relating to 2/7th and 1/8th Manchesters in 1918

[BNB]

Hello,

I'm pleased to join you.

Although I live in Ontario, Canada, I'm originally from Wiltshire and my primary interests are the 62nd/Wilts Regt and the R. Wilts Yeo.  So why am I here?  I'll try to explain.  The information that follows has been trawled from a variety of sources including MICs, Medal Rolls and surviving soldiers' papers.

In my research on the Wilts I have found a group of 45 territorials. all of whom were previously with the Manchesters, who joined 1/Wilts in France in mid June 1918.  On joining, they were assigned the Wilts numbers 205672-205718 (two numbers in this range appear to have been unassigned).  All but one of the 45 had previously served exclusively with the Manchesters with their original battalions on enlistment shown as including 4th, 1/4th, 5th, 1/5th, 7th, 1/7th, 8th, 3/8th, 9th, 1/9th, 2/9th, 10th, 1/10th, 2/10th.  (I must confess that I find these numbers a bit overwhelming since the Wilts had only 2 territorial battalions!).  As an aside, are the 7th and 1/7th, etc. the same or different battalions? Twenty-one of the men had earned the 1915 Star, with Egypt being the first theatre for 11, and Gallipoli the remainder.  Nine of them died serving with the Wilts, one deserted, another was awarded the DCM (he already had the MM with the Manchesters), and two received the MM.  According to the Wilts Medal Rolls, 18 of the men (205672-205690; no 205684) served last with 2/7th Manchesters and 27 (205691-205718; no 205703) with 1/8th Manchesters.

Although a draft of 45 men is not insignificant, I can find no mention of them in the War Diary of 1/Wilts.  My only guess, and it is just that, is that the men were previously at the Manchester Depot (hence the variety of enlistment battalions and backgrounds), were sent to France, and soon after transferred to the Wilts.  So my primary question is, can anyone give me more insight on what the two Manchester battalions were up to at that time (June 1918) and why they might have provided drafts to 1/Wilts? 

Should anyone be interested, I can provide a table that summarizes all that I know about each of the 45 men.

I hope you will find my posting interesting and I look forward to any further information you can provide.

Thank you,
Barry

[sphinx]

Barry,

The Battalion histories and movements are on the main forum site.

As for your battalion numbers there 4th was a extra reserve Bn in the UK training recruits and guarding the east coast.
There was no 1st/4th Bn as they were not a TF Bn.

The 7th became the 1st/7th and the 2nd/7th when the latter was formed.

3rd line TF Bn's did not go overseas.

regards

[Tim Bell]

Hi Barry,
Your question is similar to one I posed about men joining the Manchesters from the Royal Berks Regiment.  In that instance a mixed group of RBR men arrived at Etaples Infantry Brigade Depot from a range of RBR Battalions.  They were then attached to the 17th Manchesters - as a draft to replace casualties for a Battalion in greatest need.  A few men were killed in action attached to the 17th and then a few months later the draft were transferred to 17th.

If this pattern was repeated, the Manchester men in the 1 Wilts will have been new recruits and men returned from wounds.  Arriving at Etaples they may then have been posted to the Wilts as a draft.  This would explain the 4th Bttn and the Territorial range.  The omission of numbers may relate to losses of men attached to the Wilts, but not then transferred.

This is a bit speculative and it would be good to see a few Service Records of men in your sample.  The reference to 46 I.B.D. would be anticipated. 

Hope this helps

Tim

[BNB]

sphinx,

Thanks for you response and for pointing me to the sources on the 2/7th and 1/8th.

From them I learn that by June 1918, 2/7th had been reduced to a Training Cadre, so that explains men coming to the Wilts from them.  However. 1/8th WD shows them to be in the line in mid June, so I doubt if men would have been released then.  However, earlier, on 7 June, the WD makes mention of a Battle Surplus and an Admininstrative Portion.  While I don't know what these are, perhaps they were not with the front line troops and could have served as a source for the Wilts draft.

Your comments about the 4th, lead me to check again, and I was mistaken in identifying any of the men coming from that source.

All the best,
Barry

[BNB]

Tim,

Thanks for your helpful response; I could only find service records for 2 men: 205673 Norman Taylor, 4154 3/8th Res and 301327 1/8th Manchesters (one of the draft from 2/7th) and 205707 Leslie Howard, 2690 Seaforths; 4821 9th and 352294 1/8th Manchesters (part of the 1/8th draft).  I did not make note of Depot postings so I will revisit them to look specifically for IBDs.

All the best,
Barry