"A Last Stand". The 2nd Manchesters at Beaumont Hamel 18.11.16.

[PhilipG]

The Regimental History particularly remarks on the attack by the 2nd Mcrs. on 18.11.16 at Beaumont Hamel (Munich trench etc.).  The Brigade Diary records that the 2nd Manchesters had "very heavy casualties and were practically wiped out".

One item in another account refers to a Manchesters' patrol on the 19th November discovering the scene of a "last stand" and the bodies of one officer and 40 OR's who had died in action as a group adjacent to a blazing dugout.   Alas, the name of the gallant officer is not given.  I have made an attempt, possibly forlorn, to ascertain this officer's name.  It may be that the gallantry of this officer was rewarded.   Any ideas, please?
   So far, I have traced the following:-

Capt. B.Erskine     POW
Lt.     M.Davidson  POW
2nd Lt. G.Griffin    POW
2nd Lt. E.Henderson POW
2nd Lt. N.Harley    POW
2nd Lt. F.Harbron  POW
2nd Lt. J.C.Babbage KIA
2nd Lt. R.B. Bayliss  KIA
Capt. O.C.Rayner     KIA     "A" Coy.

As the three "KIA" are named on the Thiepval Memorial it would seem that there was no time to bury these casualties, but time to obtain identity discs, perhaps?   PhilipG.

[timberman]

A soldier of "C" coy made it back to our trenches and
gave an account of the action saying he was the last
man standing.
So it is possible that you could count out Captain Rayner.

The three officers you have listed are the only ones to die
on the 18 November 1916.

No other Officers died on the 17th or 19th.

Timberman

Most of the OR that died on the 18th are also listed on the
Thiepval Memorial

[PhilipG]

Timberman,

Very many thanks for that info.  As so often happens in my research, I am left with a choice of two names -  my dilemma re Wilfred Owen's possible servant comes to mind!   However, I am sure that Col. Luxmoore's letters to the next of kin of both 2nd Lts. who were kia would have been appropriately worded in respect of their bravery. Thanks again. PhilipG.

[mack]

theres a connection to Wilfred owen here,he replaced 2/Lt babbage after he was killed.

2/Lt john colston babbage
2nd manchesters
killed in action 18-11-16
born 1883 bristol
inns of court OTC
posted to 2nd battalion 12-7-16
married miss sarah,jane taylor 7-6-11 at blackpool parish church
163 Whitehorse lane,surrey
educated st marys college,london
teacher at woodside moreland rd council school

there a photo on the forum Philip

mack

[mack]

captain oliver crossley rayner
A.coy 3rd manchesters,attatched to 2nd manchesters
born 22-8-93 Norfolk
lived sunnyside,meadow rd,cromer
son of sir Thomas crossley and lady agnes rayner of Guiana
educated hailesbury USC and Sidney sussex college Cambridge
his father died in Guiana on 22-5-1914
remembered on st peter+st paul memorial,cromer
his parents were both born in Manchester

captain rayner could still be a candidate,he was in A.coy 3rd battalion,no details of which company he was in with the 2nd battalion.

mack

[mack]

2/Lt Reginald,blencowe bayliss
2nd manchesters
lincolns inn OTC 10-6-15,posted to 27th battalion 11-12-15,to france 15th july 1916,joined 2nd battalion 22-7-16
worked in the hull branch of the London joint stock bank
resided 12 st.giles croft Beverley yorks
parents reverend Archibald+mary bayliss
born 8-6-1894
his former CO said he was without fear and always looked after his men

mack

[PhilipG]

Mack,

Many thanks for the trouble you have taken in this intriguing matter.  From what you write about Bayliss, I am tempted to think he may be the candidate for the "Last Stand".  Do you happen to know the name of his previous CO, that is the officer who speaks so highly of Bayliss' military prowess whilst with the 27th Bn.?

Turning to Rayner and the possibility now that he could also be a candidate.  I had assumed that the CWGC entry "A Coy. 3rd Bn. attached 2nd. Bn." was pointing to the fact that Rayner was in the 2nd Battalion's "A" Coy.   Clearly, I was wrong in taking this view.  It did not occur to me that his being in "A" Coy. at Cleethorpes would still be of importance at his death.  Thanks again, Philip.

[mack]

hiya Philip.
does the account by the 2nd battalions patrol mention if the men they found were manchesters,from 18th till 22nd November,men of the 11th borders and 16th HLI were besieged in Frankfurt trench,efforts to rescue these men[about 120 in total]were unsuccessful,even though they could have gotten away,the scots refused to give up this position because they wouldn't leave their wounded behind,eventually lack of ammo,food and water compelled them to surrender.
I,me curious why they had a patrol out when there was heavy fighting and full scale rescue attempts going on over these few days in this area,the 16th lancs fusiliers got cut up pretty badly,losing 3 officers and 60 men in one attempt,the last stand could refer to this action,major merryweather was killed on the parapet while directing the withdrawal

mack

[mack]

hiya Philip.
does the account by the 2nd battalions patrol mention if the men they found were manchesters,from 18th till 22nd November,men of the 11th borders and 16th HLI were besieged in Frankfurt trench,efforts to rescue these men[about 120 in total]were unsuccessful,even though they could have gotten away,the scots refused to give up this position because they wouldn't leave their wounded behind,eventually lack of ammo,food and water compelled them to surrender.
I,me curious why they had a patrol out when there was heavy fighting and full scale rescue attempts going on over these few days in this area,the 16th lancs fusiliers got cut up pretty badly,losing 3 officers and 60 men in one attempt,the last stand could refer to this action,major merryweather was killed on the parapet while directing the withdrawal

mack

ignore this Philip,these men didn't surrender till 25th November,and the patrol had already found the dead men days before

mack

[mack]

the battalion although short of bombs,attacked from lager alley and onto munich trench and trench 28,the company covering their flank was ambushed from a dugout that hadnt been cleared,this company got into munich trench and trench 28,but could not withdraw or advance,the germans were on both sides and advancing up a trench in front of them,a dugout caught fire,the smoke was that dense the men had to put on their gas masks,all these men were killed,wounded or taken prisoner,the place was later found with all their bodies grouped togethor

                                                    brigade commander

[PhilipG]

Mack,

Thanks again.  I have plotted the attack directions you so kindly gave on to the relative Trench Map and have gained a good impression of the line of attack, although I failed to locate Trench 28.

The Regimental History covers the attack over some 3 pages, with contributions from Col. Luxmoore, the Brigade Commander's Diary and interestingly, one from "a Sergeant", the name of his regiment not being quoted, who got cut-off during the battle, but was later able to report what had happened.    Our colleague, Timberman, has reported that a sole survivor of the Manchesters' "C" Coy. made it back and reported that he was the last man standing.  Thus, he may have a different source of reference from that held by me.

As to the name of the gallant officer involved in the final stand, my guess is that it was Bayliss, in view of the remarks of his former CO that you quote.  The situation is typical of the predicament that a 2nd Lt. and Platoon Commander could find himself.  Alas, we shall never know for certain the names of these brave men.  Philip.

[mack]

hiya philip.
i have two references that say 2/Lt bayliss was wounded and missing,andy[kingo]may be able to help,there was a article about him in the hull daily mail on 14-12-16.babbage was mentioned in the M.E.N on 24-11-17 and 29-11-16,rayner was also mentioned in the paper on 29-11-16.

mack

[kingo]

Hull Daily Mail 14/12/1916;

[timberman]

  Our colleague, Timberman, has reported that a sole survivor of the Manchesters' "C" Coy. made it back and reported that he was the last man standing.  Thus, he may have a different source of reference from that held by me.

I think I must have

Timberman

Click on image to make it larger

[PhilipG]

Mack & Kingo,

Thanks for your continued interest Mack, and to Kingo thanks for the interesting newspaper article.  Philip.