17th Manchesters - Albert Alton DCM

[Tim Bell]

Hi Mack,
This man's Service Record confirms he was captured at Trones Wood.  Strangely, the Official Record omits Albert from the DCM list, but the citation confirms the number as 17/8361 and his Record identifies Montauban as the relevant place.
Gazetted 28/3/18 "for Montauban action" [1/7/16]. For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty.  During a heavy bombardment a trench was blown in in several places and several men were buried.  He at once started to dig them out under a very heavy fire, and rescued two men single-handed.  He behaved in a most cool and courageous manner throughout the bombardment.  *Albert was a resident of 69 Hilton Street, Higher Broughton.  He had initially bean rejected as too small (5 ft 6 1/2")  by the Navy.  Aged 19 years and 9 months Albert was a former Cutter who enlisted 3/9/14.  He trained with I Platoon, A Company holding a chequered record of discipline (42 Days C.B.)  Listed as Missing, then PoW 11/7/16, Trones Wood.  Notified to father, George on 17/8/16.  Held in Dulman Camp to be repatriated at Leith on 10/12/18.  He was domobilised on 12/3/19.

[mack]

what official records is he omitted from ??hes in the DCM roll,which is from official records,and he has a MIC and service record

mack

[Tim Bell]

The 1923 First City Brigade book calls itself "a Record 1914-18"
Is it best to call this the Official History?
Any way Albert is not on the DCM list in appendix 1 of 17th section.

[Tim Bell]

I solved my own question. Albert Alton is listed with 16th Bttn for his DCM.

[mack]

aahhh i know what you mean tim,its that bloody book again,a history of 16th,17th,18th and 19th manchesters,its full of omissions and wrong info,its a useful book,but double check any entries you find,just to make sure,most of the dodgy info is during the 1918 period.

mack

[Tim Bell]

I'd assumed The History or Record was accurate - but not now. Albert's Service Record shows he was reported missing on 10/11 July 1916 by OC 17MR.  This seems to indicate he had not been attached or posted to 16th.  I'll continue to claim him for my Honours list...

Cheers
T

[mack]

I'd assumed The History or Record was accurate - but not now. Albert's Service Record shows he was reported missing on 10/11 July 1916 by OC 17MR.  This seems to indicate he had not been attached or posted to 16th.  I'll continue to claim him for my Honours list...

Cheers
T

your right to claim him tim,he was in the 17th batt,its another error in the book,you found your first one and there will probably be more.

mack

[Tim Bell]

Does the forum know the reason why deeds carried out on 1st July 1916 were not recognised until the Gazette of 12/3/18?  It seems even more strange when he Albert was being held as a PoW for the whole intervening period.
Tim

[Atherton]

Manchester Evening News - Tuesday 24 October 1916 listing Alton as a POW

[mack]

Does the forum know the reason why deeds carried out on 1st July 1916 were not recognised until the Gazette of 12/3/18?  It seems even more strange when he Albert was being held as a PoW for the whole intervening period.
Tim

tracking down witnesses,if the officer doing the recommending was also captured,then they would need to get a full statement from him and that takes time.

mack

[Tim Bell]

Thanks both,
I may see whether Santa will pay for a subscription to the Newspaper Archive...

Mack produces a fresh challenge.  Who was the officer who recommended the DCM?  Only Captains Madden and MacDonald would seem to be the senior officers who could have recommended Honours and they weren't captured.  It must have been the witnesses who may have been captured at Trones Wood.  Otherwise wounded men may have been separate (just about everyone at Montauban was wounded at least once) and it will have taken a lot of time and effort to verify details.

Is Albert Hall the Private A E Hall who was interviewed by Martin Middlebrook?

T
ps I just found http://www.themanchesters.org/DCM%2017THbN.htm Albert's Service record mentions his DCM for Montauban action.  Is it possible to update the list?