Manchester owned Webley? Help me identify this pistol!

[Ihutch1]

Hi everyone,

I just recently found this forum while looking for possible clues as to the original owner of a Webley VI in my possession. The revolver was made in 1916 and is inscribed "R.P.S 23rd Man. R.". I take this to mean the 23rd (service) battalion, Manchester regiment, a bantam 'pals' battalion formed in 1914.

If anyone knows who R.P.S may be or has a battalion muster/roll, that would be greatly appreciated! I've considered that R.P.S could be Regimental Provost Sergeant. Were they issued revolvers? Would they have been marked?

Thanks,

Ian

[harribobs]

Hi Ian

and welcome to the forum

In a quick search there's no obvious candidate in the 23rd Battalion Officers roll of honour, and the rank of Regimental Provost Sargeant didn't exist in their original format. I am afraid I'm unable to say whether it existed later

the photos and rolls are here by the way

23rd battalion

chris

[Robert Bonner]

Ian.
Welcome to the forum. I'm sure that you will find it of interest.
The combination of the initials RPS and 23rd Bn can only indicate that the revolver was the property of Lieutenant-Colonel R P Smith who was the first commanding officer of the battalion when it was first formed.

He was a Captain on the reserve and had been appointed to the temporary rank of Liieutenant-Colonel in August 1915. I don't know how long he served with battalion.
Robert

[george.theshed197]

Well done that man,

Wonderful job indeed, what a pity that the greater majority of our queries cannot be answer so succently and in such record time.

George.

[Ihutch1]

Thank you all for your quick and helpful responses.

I'm still finding it a bit strange to be able to put a name to this pistol. I had been searching on my own for a few weeks and yet here someone answers my question in a matter of hours. I look forward to learning what I can about Lt-Col Smith. I have already found him mentioned in the gazette on his promotion to Lt-Col.

Would "Manchester Pals" by Michael Stedman be a good place to start learning about the 23rd battalion?

[tonyrod]

to save members searching,

9326 SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 25 SEPTEMBER, 1916.

The undermentioned Comdg. Offrs. are
transfd. to comd. Bns.: —
1 Sept. 1916.
Temp. Lt.-Col. R. P. Smith (Res. of Off.),
from Manch. R.

[harribobs]

Would "Manchester Pals" by Michael Stedman be a good place to start learning about the 23rd battalion?

it's an excellent book but be aware it deals with the 16th though ti the 23rd battalions

chris

[Maninblack]

I can add a little more to the thread, a little late I appreciate, but I haven't popped in much recently.

During WW1 it was not unusual for officers to buy their own pistol and even ammunition. Sensible officers would buy a weapon that was designed to use service pattern ammunition and the .38 Webley was amongst the most popular. It is for this reason that this weapon has survived outside the War department stores system and why it is engraved. So, technically it is a military pattern weapon but not military issue.

[sphinx]

Maninblack,

I think you will find that the favoured British calibre of WW1 was not .38" but .455".  To have a .38" in WW1 was unusual.

The Webley Mk.VI in .455" calibre was the standard British Army issue service revolver of WW1.

There is no evidence to suggest that this was not one such issue as many officers named their weapons.

regards

[Ihutch1]

Maninblack,

I think you will find that the favoured British calibre of WW1 was not .38" but .455".  To have a .38" in WW1 was unusual.

The Webley Mk.VI in .455" calibre was the standard British Army issue service revolver of WW1.

There is no evidence to suggest that this was not one such issue as many officers named their weapons.

regards

That is correct, this weapon was chambered for .455. Unfortunately, like many Webleys, this pistol was sadly altered when imported to the US in the 1950s-60s. The cylinder has been shaved at the rear so that it would accept .45acp in moon clips, which was much more readily available, at the expense of being able to use .455 cartridges. This was foolish both from the perspective of a collector and from that of a shooter since the .45acp generates far too high a pressure for use in the Webley.

Other than this regrettable modification, the revolver is in fine condition and, although I have only fired one cyclinder with a very tame handload and the original 265gr bullet, I was left in no doubt that the Webley would have been a fine man-stopper.

Thumbnails of the Col's Webley (click for a larger image):

[sphinx]

Thanks for the photos, a lovely Regimental revolver.

Dont worry to much about the calibre conversion, if it had remained in the UK it would have been deactivated completely.

regards

[harribobs]

if it had remained in the UK it would have been deactivated completely.

regards

or more probably destroyed...

[Maninblack]

Yes, I am getting my knicklers in a twist with Enfield .38 revolvers instead of Webleys. Interestingly, Webley did the Webley-Fosbury Mk2 in .38 A very accurate weapon but ugly as sin.