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Started by JWRH, January 30, 2013, 06:07:10 PM

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JWRH

Hello MRG Forum  :)

I'm undertaking research into 33 students from Hulme Hall (University of Manchester Hall of Residents) who were killed during the 1st World War and came across this forum today.

Six of the students were in the Manchester regiments (5th, 6th, 7th and 21st Battalions). Hopefully I can tap into your collective knowledge on some areas and occasionally add to discussions where I have come across letters etc!

JWRH

tonyrod

hi JWRH, And welcome to the forum,  I am sure  someone will come along and  help, enjoy your stay, tonyrod

mack

hiya JWRH.
post your 33 names,and we may be able to help.

mack ;D

JWRH

Quote from: mack on January 30, 2013, 07:47:15 PM
hiya JWRH.
post your 33 names,and we may be able to help.

mack ;D

Hi Mack

Out of the six students who fought with Manchester Battalions, I am struggling to find out much on the army background of Private 4754 Robert Kennaugh Southward of the 7th Battalion. He entered Hulme Hall in October 1915. I have a copy of a letter sent from Robert's parents to the Warden at Hulme Hall. This states that he was killed on 18 August 1916 whilst crossing 'no-mans land' and was buried where he fell. His parents were given no other details about his death.

The other five were officers, so it has been a bit easier to find out information:

Lt W G Freemantle was killed in action whilst serving with the 7th Battalion in the 4th June attack in Gallipoli.

2nd Lt Harold James Porter (5th Battalion) died of wounds on 15 August 1915 in Eygpt. I imagine this may have been a result of the attacks in early August in Gallipoli.

Lt Aubrey Harris (21st Battalion). I have a bit of information relating to his death. I saw on the site that he is mentioned in the Manchester Pals book, so I'll get a copy of that. He was killed on 4th September 1916. I noticed that he is mentioned a bit on the thread on the messageboard about the confusion of 29 August / 4 September.

I don't have a lot of information about Captain Robert George Alexander Dickey (5th Battalion): what i do know is that he served and was wounded in Gallipoli, was gassed on the Somme in April 1918 and died of his wounds in November of the same year.

Finally, Captain Robert Harold Bedford. I came across a series of letters from Robert sent to his history tutor at the University. These chart his progress from Gallipoli through Siani to France. The letters have provided a real taste of army life during the war. One of his experiences still has me chuckling when I remember it. When out in the desert he mentioned that: ". Loud voiced and argumentative subalterns fresh from England with a meticulous regard for the niceties of the text books are the bane of my life just now. I have to maintain a prudent and tolerant reticence in public and to read hard in private, for the trenches have obliterated much of what I learned in England." He was killed March 25th 1918 in the early stages of the German attack. Interestingly, he writes a bit about the death of Capt Cawley (former MP of Heywood) at Gallipoli, as he was fought alongside him.

It would be great if anyone is able to provide any additional information about the men, or what the Battalions were up to at the time. I've managed to pick up a few books which have proved useful. I am also happy to share any information I have gathered, if the names ring a bell for anyone else.

Cheers

JWRH





tonyrod

HI JWRH,   just  to help others who might want to add information,

Private 4754 Robert Kennaugh Southward
Date of Death: 18/08/1916
Age: 19
Regiment/Service:
Manchester Regiment  7th Bn.
Panel Reference
Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.
Memorial
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information:
Son of Mr. and Mrs. W. C. Southward, of Cooilbane House, Sulby, Isle of Man.

1/7th Battalion
August 1914 : in Burlington Street, Manchester. Part of Manchester Brigade, East Lancashire Division.
25 September 1914 : landed at Alexandria in Egypt.
6 May 1915 : landed on Gallipoli.
26 May 1915 : formation became 127th Brigade, 42nd (East Lancashire) Division.
28 December 1915 : evacuated from Gallipoli, landed on Mudros and proceeded to Egypt.
2March 1917 : landed Marseilles and proceeded to the Western Front.

127th (Manchester) Brigade   
1/5th Bn, the Manchester Regiment   
1/6th Bn, the Manchester Regiment   
1/7th Bn, the Manchester Regiment   
1/8th Bn, the Manchester Regiment   left for 126th Bde February 1918
127th Machine Gun Company   joined 14 March 1916, moved to 42nd Bn MGC 23 Feb 1918
127th Trench Mortar Battery   joined 26 March 1917

themonsstar

Hi JWRH

Here is some Info on some of the Lads, Its from the book by Professor H.L.A.Hankins.CBE. FEng  Sept 1919.  The Manchester University Officers Training Corps (OTC) and The Great War 1914-1919


2/Lt H.J. Porter




themonsstar


themonsstar


themonsstar

4754 Pte RK.Southward

themonsstar


Tim Bell

JWRH,

Lt Aubrey Harris went on to be Languages Master at Merchiston College in Edinburgh.  There was a strong OTC there and the school provided 10 officers to the Manchester Pals.  Notable former colleagues include Lt Col Elstob VC, who was also in the Languages Dept at the school.  Wilfrith Elstob was also an alumni of Manchester University.

If anyone can work out why a large group of teachers and pupils from Edinburgh joined the City Battalions, I'd be interested to hear.  The University link is the sole explanation at the moment, but it is only these two men that had the connection.

Does anyone have a list of Manchester University OTC members?

Tim

Following one Platoon and everything around them....
[url="http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/"]http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/[/url]

JWRH

Quote from: themonsstar on February 01, 2013, 11:19:17 AM
Hi JWRH

Here is some Info on some of the Lads, Its from the book by Professor H.L.A.Hankins.CBE. FEng  Sept 1919.  The Manchester University Officers Training Corps (OTC) and The Great War 1914-1919


Thanks themonsstar. There are some useful snippets of information that I hadn't come across before.

I'm interested in the book that you have by Professor Hankins. Was it Hankins who wrote the book 'A History of the MSUOTC 1898 to 2002'? I've had a brief look for the Great War 1914-1919 book, but can't see any reference to it. Do you know where I could get a copy?

One of the main reasons for my interest is the photographs. I visited the MSUOTC a few years ago and was given access to the MSUOTC Roll of Honour book and the 1898 to 2002 book. There were photographs in the Roll of Honour that I've not been able to trace from other sources (can you see a photo for Capt. Arthur Lord?).

Thanks :)

JWRH

mack

Lt william,george freemantle was a quaker,his platoon was involved in the attack on the right flank,but they came up against a strong turkish trench across the nullah,Lt freemantle was shot in the right arm and then shot through the left arm,he broke his teeth clentching them through the pain,but he refused to leave his men,he then recieved a bullet to the body which killed him instantly

mack ;D

Tim Bell

I'm going off the Hulme Hall topic, but it may help to post the casualties commemorated on the Uni. OTC Memorial courtesy of http://www.tameside.gov.uk/museumsgalleries/mom/memorials/ww1.  I also noted Lt Dickey's father being involved with the new Whitworth Park Memorial for the 7th Battn.

Lt. Col. W Elstob, V.C.      Lt. S D Adshead      2nd Lt. H G Ainsworth
Lt. Col C S Worthington      Lt. E Bouskill      2nd Lt. W Balshaw
      Lt. R Box      2nd Lt. N H Blythe
Major. J R Houghton      Lt. J H B Darwin      2nd Lt. B Butterworth
Major. A J Moorhouse      Lt. J H Doyle      2nd Lt. J H Cansino
Major. J E Rowbotham      Lt. C R Eller      2nd Lt. H C Clough
      Lt. J B Emmott      2nd Lt. J Cooper
Capt. L B Baird      Lt. S Fernyhough      2nd Lt. S J Davie
Capt. R H Bedford      Lt. W G Freemantle      2nd Lt. A M McL. Doig
Capt. R Bentham      Lt. E L Goodwin      2nd Lt. A J I Donald
Capt. P A Blythe      Lt. S Gudgeon      2nd Lt. F P Elliott
Capt. R L Bolton      Lt. A Harris      2nd Lt. H H Fielding
Capt. E Brodrick      Lt. E R Kingsley      2nd Lt. C Forth
Capt. A B Brooks      Lt. E R Lamb      2nd Lt. J B Green
Capt. J Brown      Lt. H Lomas      2nd Lt. W G Hardman
Capt. D H Budenberg      Lt. S McDougall      2nd Lt. J F Horsfield
Capt. S F Collier      Lt. H L McLellan      2nd Lt. R S Innes
Capt. J G Cunliffe      Lt. R Mellor      2nd Lt. J C Jackson
Capt. R G A Dickey      Lt. H J Porter      2nd Lt. S Jackson
Capt. G Dixon      Lt. G F Potts      2nd Lt. J F Motler
Capt. H T Dreschfield      Lt. H W Price      2nd lt. T H O'Donahue
Capt. S W Dyson      Lt. H G Senior      2nd Lt. H Simmonds
Capt. R W G Grant      Lt. W G Stott      2nd Lt. B Tempest
Capt. E C Gray      Lt. A C B Taylor      2nd Lt. J M Wade
Capt. H S Grimshaw      Lt. H D Thewlis      2nd Lt. G F Wallace
Capt. J A Hislop            2nd Lt. P Ward
Capt. W E Jackson            2nd Lt. B A Westphal
Capt. P C Johnson            2nd Lt. A K Wilson
Capt. E Knott            2nd Lt. L G Wrigley
Capt. O Lewtas            
Capt. A R Maw            Cpl. G B Elliott
Capt. A P Owen            L.Cpl. C T Barnett
Capt. G W Owen            L.Cpl. H S McCartney
Capt. L Renshaw            Pte. J Cheshire
Capt. R V Rylands            Pte. E C Cotton
Capt. A H Tinker            Pte. L F Huddleston
Capt. A Walsh            Pte. J W Pick
Capt. C W Whitaker            Pte. C F T Price
Capt. N Wilkinson            Pte. R K Southward
            Pte. P J Wade
            Pte. L G Whitbread
            Pte. W Wilson
Sorry the format is poor.
Tim
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
[url="http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/"]http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/[/url]

themonsstar

I could be wrong but the book could be a one of its kind, I got it from a book dealer, a couple of years ago.


Tim I will try and get the list from the book on to here


Cheers Roy