Author Topic: Captain Thomas Cartman  (Read 17215 times)

Offline themonsstar

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2013, 11:28:17 AM »
You are all getting old  :o and your eye sight is going  ;D

Offline Mark Hone

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2014, 12:35:51 PM »
I am pleased to report that after a considerable delay while various technical issues were resolved, Captain Tom Cartman's scrapbook can now be viewed online at:
 http://www.bgsalumni.com/the-great-war-scrapbook-of-captain-thomas-cartman/
Thank you to everyone who has helped to bring this project to fruition.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2014, 03:21:17 PM »
Mark,

Great stuff.  Thanks for posting this.

Tim
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Offline Mark Hone

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2014, 03:47:00 PM »
I would be very interested to hear from anyone who can add any details about the photographs , particularly the numerous named individuals depicted. Now that I can actually examine the images at leisure without worrying that they are going to disintegrate in front of my eyes , I can begin work on annotations etc. I hope to get a copy of Tom Cartman's full officer service record from Kew at some point. The digitizer eventually did a first rate job. 

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2014, 06:46:02 AM »
Mark,
The forum helped me with Honours and bravery awards.  Here's my profile of men mentioned in Thomas' scrapbook who received awards.
Part 1
Page 7 (Also Pg 16 - Part II)
2nd Lieutenant Alan Thomas Selbourne Holt MC

A Company’s former subaltern was gazetted on 18/6/17 for action at Heninel.  His citation reads “For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty.  When in the second line of the enemy position with only a few men, he succeeded in holding the position.  When he was wounded, he encouraged his men to carry on the work and gave directions for the defence before withdrawing.”

Alan Holt’s father Edwin was an affluent solicitor.  In 1901 the family lived in Platt Lane, Rusholme and employed four servants.  Alan was born in May 1896.  He attended Rugby School (1911 Census) and graduated Manchester University with a Law degree in 1913.  He had been a solicitors articled clerk; before his commission on the same day as Norman Vaudrey on 28th September 1914.  In the Spring of 1915, Alan was OC of XV Platoon in D Company.  He arrived in France in April 1916, presumably staying back with the 25th Training Reserve Battalion when the 17th left for France in November 1916. During his time with A Company he wrote some vivid and increasingly dry letters to his mother Sarah.  These recorded wounds at Guillemont and during a fatal accident during rifle grenade training see Flers in September 1916.

Arthur Bell noted “It had been he (Lt. Holt) who, one night, when, after much marching, I was on sentry duty go – more than half asleep standing up – challenged me and told me the consequences of being asleep on my post.  I learn from the official record that he subsequently gained the M.C. (Military Cross).  Mr Middlebrook’s book shows that he was alive at the time of writing.”

Following recovery from wounds Allan Holt returned to the Battalion where he was promoted Captain and placed in command of A Company.  In the action at Heninel, Alan was recognised for his valour, but also captured and lived our the rest of hostilities as a Prisoner of War.

Alan Holt did go on to live a long life.  Records show addresses in Hale and 2 Booth Street, Manchester in 1921.  Alan also married Catherine O’Neil at Barton on Irwell  in the summer of 1921.  Alan Holt delivered the Silent Toast - "Fallen Members" at the 16th Reunion Dinner at the Waldorf Hotel.

He was cremated in Altrincham in May 1980.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 06:56:04 AM by Tim Bell »
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2014, 06:59:23 AM »
Part 1 Pg 7
Regimental Sergeant Major Henry Coates MC 9369

RSM Coates� citation in the London Gazette of 18/6/17 refers to the award for �Conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He was largely instrumental in getting three wounded officers into safety under heavy fire.  He set a splendid example throughput under very heavy fire.� It is assumed these took place at Heninel in April 1917.  Henry was commissioned and survived hostilities.  He was married with three daughters and returned to Salford Police.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 03:09:20 AM by mack »
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2014, 07:02:18 AM »
Part 1. Pg7
Private William Flaherty DCM 2729

Gazetted 18/6/17 for action at Heninel 23/4/17.  For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty.  He displayed great promptness and initiative in the newly captured position.  He caused a block to be made and brought forward a machine gun into action against enfilade fire, inflicting a large number of casualties.  He set a splendid example throughout.***William lived at Stamford Street, Mossley and worked as a peiecer at Britannia Spinning Company.  He was 48yrs old. 
No pic I'm afraid.  Probably transferred to 17th Bttn after wounding with Regular Bttn.
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2014, 07:05:17 AM »
Part 1. Pg 9 & 13
2nd Lieutenant Fred Ruddy MC DCM

Fred Ruddy was gazetted on 16/9/18 for action near Shelley Farm at Ypres when he was in command of the composite A & B Company of the 17th Battalion forming part of the 16th.  His citation reads �For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty while commanding a company during a hostile attack.  He formed a defensive flank and when the enemy broke through and both flanks were in the air he held on and inflicted sever loss on them, before withdrawing in good order.  He then took up a new positions, collected stragglers from other units and maintained his position in spite of heavy barrages and strong attacks for two days when he was relieved.� Fred had previously been awarded a DCM prior to his commission on 25/9/17, while serving as 2058 Lance Corporal in the 11th Royal Fusiliers � 25/11/16.

Joined 17th Bttn from II Corps Reinforcements Camp and taken on strength 19/7/1917. T/Adjt Vice J Duncan 20/2/1918. Command of composite A & B Coys succesfully holding the flank at Lock 8 25/4/1918. Later MC in 16/91918. Composite Coy att HQ 16th Bttn with 2nd Yorks 29/4/1918.  Formed Training Cadre for American Troops 26/5/1918. Promoted A/Capt 31/5/1918. Leave in England 4/7/1918. Transferred to 13th Bttn when Cadre disbanded 30/7/1918.

Also Pg 9
Lt & Qtr Dally
2nd Lt George Frederick Vaughan Dalley (Dally)Born Leeds Q1 1878.  Formerly 6822 in W Yorks Regiment 1900. Verger Manchester Cathedral resident Moss Side in 1911. Enlisted 9050 in 17th Bttn France 8/11/1915. RQMS assumed duties of Comm Rank 9/3/1917. Hon Lt 18/6/1917. Rejoined Bttn from Hosp 7/11/1917. Composite Coy att HQ 16th Bttn with 2nd Yorks 29/4/1918. Formed Training Cadre for American Troops as Lt QM26/5/1918. Transferred to Base when Cadre disbanded 30/7/1918.

Also Pg 9
Capt & Adjt Duncan
Lt John Duncan France Comm 7th Bttn 14/10/1916. 17th Bttn 27/10/1916.  Later Capt. Adjutant effective 2/2/1917 (WD 22/8/1917). HQ Adjt 23/4/1917 Heninel. Absorbed in 17th Bttn from 7th 22/9/1917 as T/Lt. Leave in UK 24/2/1918. Took Command 27-31/3/1918 when JJW Hosp & Keefe KiA. To Hosp sick 16/4/1918. Returned to duty 28/4/1918. MiD May 1918. T/Capt WEF 28/1/1918.

Also Pg 9
No Label for image of Tom with unknown Capt of MGC.  Informed guess-
2nd Lt Charles James Backhouse (b Ambleside Q4 1893?) Served as Sgt 19973 in 1/Border Regiment. Balkans 8/12/1915.  Comm 3/London Reg 29/5/1917. Transferred from 19th Bttn to 17th Bttn on 6/2/1918. Transfer to MGC in UK & struck off strength 17/3/1918. Later Lt & Capt in 16/MGC. S. John St Liverpool in 1921.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 07:09:36 AM by Tim Bell »
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2014, 07:13:01 AM »
Part 1. Page 12.
Missing Photo Lt Hill MC
Probably Cecil Hill, listed 18th Bttn (M Stedman) for MC gazetted 26/7/18. "...valiantly held on to his sector..."
If anyone has information that Cecil was part of the 17th Bttn Roll, I'd be interested to hear.
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2014, 07:16:16 AM »
Part 1. Pg 12
Lt Woodward POW
Probably:-

Captain Ernest George Woodward MC Also see Pg 13

Captain Woodward was gazetted on 30/1/20 �For gallant and distinguished service in the Field�

Major Hugh Tunbridge Pomfret MC


Major Pomfret was gazetted on 1/1/19 �For distinguished service in connection with Military Operations in France and Flanders.�  Records indicate Hugh Pomfret had been a professional soldier in the Boer War with the Provisional Mounted Police when he was awarded the King�s South Africa Medal and Queen�s South Africa Medal.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 03:39:30 PM by timberman »
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2014, 07:29:41 AM »
Part 1 Pg 13

France 1917

Capt Orr MC
Capt William Boyd Orr joined 17th Bttn 8/1/1917 and took command of B Coy. MC Award at Polygon Wood 31/7/1917. Commissioned 19th Bttn 26/9/1914. France November 1915 with 19th Bttn. Trained as OC Lt V Pln of 19th Bttn in England.  Returned from Hospital to resume Command of D Coy 11/5/1917. Att No 2 Canadian Tunneling Coy Lille Gate 28/6/1917.  OC D Coy Ypres 31/7/1917 - wounded at duty. MC under Orders 22/8/1917 - the inscrpition confirms this relates to 'Menin Road 31/7/1917'. Later posted to 51st Notts & Derbys. Born Ayrshire 1889. Brookfield Academy, Cumberland (Quaker School) boarder 1901. Student Manchester University 1907-10.  Resident Prestwich with family 1911. Medical Student Glasgow University 1910.

Capt Miles MC
2nd Lt Charles Stanley Miles 17th Bttn Born Southsea 1881. Married with 2 children in Surrey in 1911, living separately. Lived Purley after War. Private M2/076536 arrived France 21/4/1915. Comm Regiment 9/11/1916. Taken on strength 17th Bttn 10/11/1916. Bgd Operations Officer 31/7/1917. T/Capt d/10/7/1917.  Reverts to Lt 30/9/1917. A/Capt 3/11/1917. Distinguished conduct 22/3/1918 mentioned in Bttn Record. Missing 22/3/1918. Repatriated 12/12/1918. Awarded MC 2/2/1920.

Lieut & M G Officer Lightbourne

2nd Lt John Edward Lightburn Born Liverpool 19/8/1891. Resident Warrington 1911 Articled to Solicitor. Enlisted 3/3784 27/5/1915  in Inns of Court OTC Comm 5th Bttn 9/9/1915. Arrived 17th Bttn 27/10/1916. Machine Gun officer in France 1917. Evacuated to England sick and taken off strength 2/8/1917.  Presumably returned as absorbed in 17th from 5th Bttn 22/9/1917. Retired from 5th Bttn with SWB 9/8/1918. Address in Northumberland, then Warrington.

Pg 18

Lieut Carton MC
Ditto


« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 06:54:22 AM by Tim Bell »
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2014, 07:42:06 AM »
Part 1 Pg 19

Lt Col Elstob MC DSO VC

http://www.themanchesters.org/Manchester%20Hill.htm
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2014, 07:45:42 AM »
Part 2 Pg 19
Lieutenant Colonel John James Whitehead

Gazetted 4/6/17 for action at Heninel 23/4/17. �For distinguished service in the field�.  Originally Officer in Command of B Company, he was Commanding Officer of the Battalion for sustained period in 1916/17  after the initial assaults near Montauban.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 05:10:21 PM by charlie »
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Offline Mark Hone

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2014, 07:58:43 AM »
Wow, Tim, thanks very much for this prompt and detailed response. I think 'Lieutenant Carton' may be Tom Cartman himself, suffering from the perennial problem of newspapers misspelling peoples' names !

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Captain Thomas Cartman
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2014, 10:36:42 AM »
Mark,
It's work from many forum members - especially Mack.  I'd just collated it and wanted to help build on the wonderful records.

Please have a double check at Page 18.  I'd wondered if Carton was Thomas Cartman, but the expression didn't seem to fit the other photos.  I'll take your call on it though and double check the MC citations when I have the chance.
Tim
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