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John Berry Thomson, 2nd Manchesters, WW2, India

Started by peperpup, October 08, 2012, 03:46:58 PM

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peperpup

Hello, my name's Ann and I am trying to work out where, in India, my father would have been in WW2.  I have had a lot of help from members of WW2Talk and they have suggested that I try this site, too.

He was a stores accountant. When he was demobbed he was a Lieutenant in the Manchester Regiment and I just wondered if anyone knows where in India the Manchester Regiment was at that time . After the war, when he was waiting to be demobbed he was in Fatehgarth, Northern India for a while. He then went to Deolali, Bombay, then home on the "Strathnaven".  (Got this info from letters he wrote home.)  I have read the short history of 2 Manchesters on this site which I find very interesting, but it mentions different names and a different ship to take everybody home.

He may not have started his army service in the Manchester Regiment as it seems funny for a man who lived in Aberdeen, Scotland; Gordon Highlanders territory.

Have applied to the MOD for his war records, but they will take about a year to come, if there are any, or may be very sparse  :(

Thanks for any help.

timberman

Hi Ann

Welcome to the forum
I'll move this over to the WW2 section more people will see it.

Good luck with your research.

Timberman

Wendi

Hi Ann and a Warm Welcome to our Forum  ;D

I notice that on WW2Talk you managed to find out that he was commissioned in the Manchester Regiment in 1944
QuoteSUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 24 OCTOBER, 1944

Manch. R.

16th Sept. 1944:

T/220355 John Berry THOMSON (326592).

I'd be interested to hear what the chaps think of the "T" prefix to his number  ;)

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

themonsstar

#3
The second number ( 326592) I suspect is is Officers number. The first one with the "T" could mean territorial or temporary. He is wearing two pips in the photograph this would make him a lieutenant.


Once you get his service file,the file should tell you a lot more about his service than any of those of us on here could take a guess at. He could be one of the soldiers who never served within his Battalion in the War.

Normally if you have a Battalion of a Regiment within a theatre of war, you are then going to get a lot of detached jobs in all the different areas within the theatre of war. for example, The 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment, were fighting the Imperial Japanese Army within the India, Burma theatre of war, you would then expect the Regiment and the Battalion to supply officers and men to do 1001 other jobs outside of their employment.





rafboy

Roy
In the second sentance I have just changed "then" to "than" and added "of" for you.
Hope you agree to the changes.
Delete this message if you are happy with the above please.
Cliff
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

peperpup

Thanks for your welcomes and your replies.

I don't think that Dad was ever in the Territorial Army, so maybe he was a temporary secondment, and I got the impression that he was not involved in the fighting, as such.  Can anyone tell me what a Stores Accountant would have done over in India and where, eg would he have been away from the fighting area and arranging that supplies, rations, ammunition etc be dropped in to the combat area?  Can you drop ammunition? How did they get more to the soldiers when they ran out?

My problem is that I don't understand about wars  ::)

Have managed to order a copy of Rex King-Clark's book from the library - the one that is out of print - so I am looking forward to reading that.  Am almost finished reading "Forgotten Voices of Burma" by Julian Thompson which I have enjoyed and from which I've learned a lot.

I picked up a post from someone in Melbourne, Australia about the same subject, only I can't find it again.  Can anyone give me a pointer?

Many thanks, once again for your patience with this newby!

Wendi

Ann I'm going to take my own punt at the T/220355 service number.

I tend to agree with themonsstar that the second number is his commissioned number but the "T" of the T/220355 indicates to me that prior to being with The Manchester Regiment he was Royal Army Service Corps (RASC) who had prefixes of "T" for Transport Branch and "S" for Service Branch, both of which would have been involved with, as you say
Quotearranging that supplies, rations, ammunition etc be dropped in to the combat area?  Can you drop ammunition? How did they get more to the soldiers when they ran out?

By the time of conscription into the forces for WW2 personnel were sent to the branch of the services most in need, not geographically by their town of origin.

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

themonsstar

Cheers Cliff

I use Dragon speak, which types as you speak so sometimes I do not spot the errors, but cheers for picking them up.

Wendi

I would agree on the number as Royal Army Service Corps, was divided into two main branches the prefix S (supply) and the T ( transport) were added to army numbers to denote the branches in which the soldier of the Corps served.

Peperpup

You mentioned you have letters are there any dates on the letters and do you have any other photographs of paperwork which could help is out with the research, until you get he's service record. (welcome to the site)

peperpup

Thanks, Wendi and themonsstar, for the information about the RASC and the "T" prefix.  Would this mean that he was part of the RASC within The Manchesters?  Could he have been part of the RASC within 2nd Manchesters?

I have six letters sent by my Dad to Mum.  The first was dated 31 Mar 1946 and was written in Fatehgarh, India.  He had just heard that he was to be going home.  The last letter was written on the way home on the SS Strathnaven, 22 Apr 1946, and would have been posted either in Suez or Port Said.

I have another two photos which I am going to try to attach separately.

peperpup


themonsstar

Hi Ann

The Royal Army Service Corps was a separate unit within the British Army its main job was to drive the trucks and other vehicles for the Army.

The Manchester Regiment was an infantry unit within the British Army, the infantry were mainly used to engage with the enemy and kill them. However, the infantry also had different types of units, the Manchester Regiment being one of them, was a Main Machine Gun (MMG) unit, this allowed the infantry to move forward and engage the enemy, a MMG unit was used to give support fire whilst the infantry were attacking an enemy position.

Could you make the photographs a lot bigger so I can read the badges.

The photograph where he is wearing the white headband, means he is an officer cadet, there's a good chance this unit was at Chester ( The Dale) camp. this was where the training camp for officer cadets going into the Manchester Regiment was based.

24th Machine Gun Training Centre
The Dale
Chester


Wendi

Ann if you are having trouble with that second photo wack it over to me by email and I'll help  ;)

Wendi
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

peperpup

Wendi, thanks very much for your offer of help. :)   My neighbour has sorted my out (I think) and I have attached two photos below.

themonsstar

Hi Ann

Could I look a the full photo you have I will PM my e-mail.

Cheers Roy

themonsstar

The photograph with the white band around the khaki field service cap, this photograph shows the group of servicemen undergoing officer cadet training, I will go with the photograph being taken in Chester somewhere (possibly the castle wall), this is where the 24th Machine Gun Training Centre, at The Dale (camp) Chester was located.

All of the servicemen are transferring into One of the regiments which were machine gun regiments, the Manchester Regiment being one of them.

The uniform he's wearing is the khaki field service cap,with a white band indicating an officer cadet, this is in addition to the two white stripes at the base of the shoulders.

The jacket was the 1940 pattern utility battledress (BDs) the badges at the top of the left and right arm are the (Regimental & Corps designation badge) 1943 R.A.S.C. badge, and just lower is the (arms of service strips) R.A.S.C. Yellow/blue strip.
The trousers are part of the (BDs) then you come to the anklets ( gaiters webbing) finishing with his boots.

The other photograph is too small to give any information on could you resend it to myself in a bigger format.

Regards Roy