Author Topic: Pte C A Brown MM (real name Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??  (Read 5255 times)

jonathan

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Pte C A Brown MM (real name Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« on: December 26, 2008, 03:22:47 PM »
I am trying to find out more about Private Charles Alfred Brown, real name Buzza.

He had the number 3-3638 when he served with the Manchester Regiment, but later
moved to the Northumberland Fusiliers with the number 41122. He first served in
the Balkans from the 11th November 1915, at he then moved to France where he
died of wounds on the 7th May 1918 after winning the MM.


I have done a little research and I am wondering if he may have served under a different
name because he was too young to serve. When he died in 1918 age is given as 19, however
by this point he had already been serving overseas from November 1915.

I have also pulled up his 1901 census which states he was living with his grandfather and grandmother
(called Brown) and his mother and father (called Buzza) and was age 2, and they were living at 54 Davyhulme Rd,
Davyhulme, Barton-upon-Irwell.

So far I have been unable to find his birth however if he is 2 in 1901, and he was 19 when he died, I am assuming
he was born about 1899, and must have only been 15/16 when he joined up, and 16/17 when he
first served overseas. I am assuming this is why he might have served under the name Brown (his maternal
grandfathers name) rather than his real name Buzza.

I was wondering if anybody else might have more information on this man. I am keen to see if
anybody knows what his MM was for. I did wonder if it might be for the action in which he was
wounded as his MM was published in the LG on the 6th August 1918, and as they seem to be about
3 months behind the date of the award I thought it might fit in.

Any help at all on this would be great, as I would love to find out a little more about this man. Would it be possible
to find when he moved regiments? I was also wondering if anybody might know which Battalion he served with
in the Balkans while with the Manchester Regiment as I assume the 3rd (his first number has the 3 prefix) was a reserve battalion, so he must have joined some other battalion.

Johnnie
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 09:12:51 PM by harribobs »

Offline mack

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2008, 05:13:25 PM »
hiya jonathan.
charles parents lived at 2 park ave,broadheath,altrincham
he was born at eccles in 1899
he may have been with the 11th manchesters at gallipoli.

roy should be able to help with his battalion.

merry xmas

mack.

slob

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2008, 05:44:30 PM »
Hi,
Allowing for the unusual name,and possible misunderstandings, is this his birth?
Charles Alfred Bouses  Births Dec 1898       Barton On Irwell  8c 683

Cheers,
   Dave

timberman

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2008, 10:14:07 PM »
Hi Jonathan

This is everything I can find at the moment. I'm sure you will have some of it ;D

CWGC site

Name:   BROWN
Initials:   C A
Nationality:   United Kingdom
Rank:   Private
Regiment/Service:   ALIAS
Age:   19
Date of Death:   07/05/1918
Service No:   41122
Additional information:   See "BUZZA," the true family name.
Casualty Type:   Commonwealth War Dead
Cemetery:   ARNEKE BRITISH CEMETERY



Name:   BUZZA, CHARLES ALFRED
Initials:   C A
Nationality:   United Kingdom
Rank:   Private
Regiment/Service:   Northumberland Fusiliers
Unit Text:   9th Bn.
Age:   19
Date of Death:   07/05/1918
Service No:   41122
Awards:   M M
Additional information:   (served as BROWN). Son of Charles and Mary Buzza, of 2, Park Avenue, Broadheath, Altrincham, Cheshire. Native of Eccles.
Casualty Type:   Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:   II. C. 16.
Cemetery:   ARNEKE BRITISH CEMETERY


MIC on Ancestry He used the same name for both regiments.

Description   Medal card of Brown, Charles A
Corps   Regiment No   Rank
Manchester Regiment   3/3638   Private
Northumberland Fusiliers   41122   Private

Date   1914-1920
Catalogue reference   WO 372/3 

Link

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=1644616&queryType=1&resultcount=1268

If no one on here can get for you the cost is £2.00 to download it.


This is the section on the main site that cover's the 11th Battalion, if that is the one he was in ???

http://www.themanchesters.org/11th%20batt.htm

The 11th served with the Northumberland Fusiliers on Gallipoli

And his SDGW entry. click on it to make it bigger.

Seems he only used the name Brown

Timberman



« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 10:15:38 PM by timberman »

slob

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2008, 10:54:54 PM »
here is the MIC

Dave

slob

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2008, 11:03:14 PM »
He appears in the London Gazette 2nd Aug 1918 5th supplement page 6 for his MM, but no details.

Dave

slob

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2008, 11:28:20 PM »
I have had a look in the Guardian to see if there is anything more but couldn't find anything - might have to try a fuzzier search.
But I did come across an interesting news item regarding a James William Buzza age 34 of the 1/6th Manchester regiment who died of sulphuric acid poisoning in 1919.
I case it is of interest I have attached the  extract that includes the article.

Cheers,
    Dave

jonathan

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2008, 09:39:25 AM »
Thatnk you for the replies. With a bit of luck somebody might be able to confirm his Battalion
while in Gallipoli. I was wondering if he might have been wounded, and then moved to the Northumberland
Fusiliers.

I have added his 1901 Census and MM MIC as I already had them and thought other people might be interested.
His grandfather (called Brown) is noted as being an Army Pensioner, so perhaps Charles took after him. It also
notes that hos Grandmother was born in St Johns Newfoundland.

Everything linked to him seems to suggest he served only with the name Brown, with only the CWGC stating
he served under a false name. I have his Victory Medal and 1914-15 Star and these are both marked 3-3638
Pte C A Brown Manch Reg. I have no idea where hi MM and BWM are, but wonder if they might have been
melted down for scrap (it seems that this happened to a lot of silver medals) which would be a great shame.

  

sphinx

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2008, 11:33:32 AM »
The national Roll of the Great War for Manchester has 3 Buzza's listed.

A, 1st/7th.  Died France 3.5.18

H, 1st/8th.  KIA Gallipoli 4.6.15,  both of 90 Chell St, Longsight.

J, 18th(S)Bn.  Wounded on the Somme and disabled out in 1916,  16 Bark St, Hulme.

Possible relatives?

The CWGC and Soldiers Died entries can be placed here to fill in the details by a mod.  I cant do it I'm afraid.

timberman

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2008, 01:56:29 PM »
These are the entries that Sphinx mentioned.


CWGC entries, for the two that died.

Name:   BUZZA, ARTHUR
Initials:   A
Nationality:   United Kingdom
Rank:   Private
Regiment/Service:   Manchester Regiment
Unit Text:   1st/5th Bn.
Age:   26
Date of Death:   03/05/1918
Service No:   275913
Additional information:   Son of William and Eliza Buzza, of 90, Chell St., Longsight, Manchester.
Casualty Type:   Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:   I. P. 3.

This one is a bit strange as it has no additional information but had the same address as the one above in the National Roll ???

Name:   BUZZA, HAROLD
Initials:   H
Nationality:   United Kingdom
Rank:   Private
Regiment/Service:   Manchester Regiment
Unit Text:   1st/8th Bn.
Date of Death:   04/06/1915
Service No:   2482
Casualty Type:   Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:   Panel 158 to 170.




Timberman

If you click on the picture it will make it bigger.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 02:16:28 PM by timberman »

jonathan

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 01:45:43 PM »
I'm not ssure if this helps as I don't know Manchester very well, but Charles seems to be
on the Altrincham war memorial.

http://www.traffordwardead.co.uk/index.php?sold_id=s%3A14%3A%22558%2Caltrincham%22%3B&letter=B&place=&war=I&soldier=Buzza+MM

Jonathan

Offline harribobs

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2008, 09:14:33 PM »
I'm not ssure if this helps as I don't know Manchester very well, but Charles seems to be
on the Altrincham war memorial.

http://www.traffordwardead.co.uk/index.php?sold_id=s%3A14%3A%22558%2Caltrincham%22%3B&letter=B&place=&war=I&soldier=Buzza+MM

Jonathan

that would fit with mack's information

Quote
charles parents lived at 2 park ave, broadheath, altrincham


Altrincham is a southern suburb of Manchester
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline harribobs

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 09:21:18 PM »
if i read that correctly, according to his Medal Index Card, the MM is named to the Manchester Regiment (there is a cross (with dots) next to the MM and above manchester regiment

below is the LG entry

chris
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 10:32:03 PM by harribobs »
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

jonathan

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2008, 04:02:50 PM »
As far as I know the MM is with the Northumberland Fusiliers as the LG states Northumberland Fusiliers, and his MM MIC also states Northumberland Fusiliers (9th Bn).

He was with tyhe 9th Northumberland Fusiliers when he died on the 7th May 1918, and as the MM did not appear in the LG until August 1918 I am assuming it may have been awarded for the action in which we was wounded.

Jonathan

jonathan

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Re: Pte C A Brown MM (real anme Buzza) DoW 7/5/18 Underage??
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2012, 08:33:11 AM »
Just thought I'd bring this one up again.

I have now been to the PRO and have the Medal Roll for Brown/Buzza and it seems he was with the 11th Manchester Regiment before moving to the North'd Fusiliers.

I have also found (from the War Diary) that his MM was awarded for actions on the 21st/22nd March 1918 (the time of the big German push), and was one of 19 MMs and 2 bars to MMs awarded. The War Diary also states he was awarded a 34th Divison Card of Honour on the 4th of June 1918 (so after his death).

Anyway, I thought it was worth adding.

Johnnie