Pte Michael Walsh, My Grandfather, Manchester Regiment 23rd/8th Battalion

[alan8376]

I don't have my Grandfather's service record however, from his Red Book record, it shows that he joined the Labour Corps in 1917 after being with the Manchester Regiment 1914-1917. Is there some connection between both units?  I note also, the Italy medal is listed on his MIC. Did any of the Battalions go to Italy?

[themonsstar]

Hi Alan

Do you have a number for him.

Cheers

[tonyrod]

could this be him, only 4 in man reg and only one in both  man reg and labour corps

Medal card of Walsh, Michael
Corps   Regiment No   Rank
Manchester Regiment   401084   Private
Labour Corps   514707   Private
Date   1914-1920

http://www.themanchesters.org/batt%20index.htm

the 20th,21st,and 22nd where in italy

[sphinx]

Ala,

"I note also, the Italy medal is listed on his MIC."

What do you mean by that, there wasnt an "Italy Medal"

regards

[alan8376]

Thanks guys for coming up with suggestions.  His number with the Regiment was 21632.

With the Labour Corps it was 3114458.

I have found Pte M. Walsh listed in the Photo Section under  23rd (Service) 8 City Battalion, A Coy 2 Plt. I cannot recongnise him!
Alan

[alan8376]

Thanks for the correction about Italy Medal. I had not read the description correctly!

His 'Certificate of Service' Regular Army (Red Book) Certificate of discharge 1936 lists against Campaigns the following:

The Great War 1916-17
Italy               1917-18

Seems I automatically assumed they were medals!

Although I don't have his service record, the Red Book lists as his units:

Manchester Regiment 1914-17                         No 216320
Labour Corps 1917-17                                     No 114458
Yorks and Lancaster Regiment 1917-19            No 45875
Leinster Regiment 1919-21                             No  35173
Welch Regiment 1921-36                                No 7177990

* There is also an entry on one certificte's notes as the  King's Regiment

I have noted differences of DOB.  One is listed as 1897, 1898 and 1895!

Alan

[mack]

hiya alan
the labour corps number should read 114458,a number of men from the 23rd manchesters were transferred to the 191st labour company on 14th may 1917.

mack

[alan8376]

Mack,

Thanks for pointing out that his Labour Corps Service No was incorrect. One Archives document was mistyped!

Do you know if 191 Labour Corps were in Italy? If yes! This would explain the 'Italy' medal mention in the 'Red Book'.

My uncle mentioned that my Grandfather talked about Gallipoli. Is it possible that 191 Labour Corps were there? If not. Maybe it was when he was with the Yorks and Lancs?

Thanks
Alan
Note: Grandfather was 5' 4" in his stocking feet. I believe the 2rd/8th Battalion which he joined, were also called the 'Bantams.'

[Robert Bonner]

Alan.
Four of the Pals Battalions served in Italy from November 1917: the 20th, 21st, 22nd and 24th Battalions.

The 2/8th were never called Bantams. However the 23rd battalion (8th Pals) was originally formed as a bantam battalion but ran out of small men by early 1917.

Hope this helps.

Robert

[mack]

hiya alan.
the 23rd/8th battalion are the same battalion,when the 23rd battalion was first raised,it was unofficially known as the 8th city battalion manchester regt until it was designated by the war office as the 23rd manchesters.
your grandfather never served at gallipoli with any of the regiments named on his MIC,apart from his 23rd manchesters number,all his other army numbers were issued long after the gallipoli campaign was over

i cant help with the 191st labour coys whereabouts,its not my field,but ivor lee on the great war forum may be able to help,hes the expert on the labour corps.

mack

[alan8376]

Again thanks for all the info supplied.

My typo error! He was originally 23rd Battalion (8th Pals).

Alan

[themonsstar]

I hope this helps you with 191st  Labour Coy


191 Coy

Feb 17   Serving BOULOGNE (6 Gp) – 6 Gp diary
12 May 17   Formed in France as a result of ACI 611/17
From 25 Infantry Labour Company BOULONGE – GHQ Diary Notes (Feb 17)
Numbers – 113,001 – 114,600
4 Jul 17   20 ORs – tos – 6 Gp Diary
28 Jul 17   Sos 6 Gp to Forward Area – 6 Gp Diary
29 Jul 17   HQ & ½ 191 Coy – tos COXYDE – railhead – XV Corps Diary
12 Aug 17   191 Coy – complete at COXYDE – XV Corps Diary
17 Aug 17   Det 1 + 238 serving in BOULONGE sos from 6 Gp – 6 Gp Diary
18 Aug 17   191 Coy – replace 128 Coy at AVECAPPELLE railhead, 1 pl det to 163 Coy working at ST IDESBALD ammo railhead – XV Corps Diary
25 Oct 17   191 Coy – sos to another Army – XV Corps Diary
26 Oct 17   191 Coy – tos 27/V.18.c.8.7 (Army Area) from 4th Army – BG rail – 2nd Army Diary
17 Nov 17   191 Coy – sos from LA KREULE  to relieve fighting troops being employed by the Canadian Corps – VIII Corps Diary
6 Jan 18   191 Coy – camp at 28?/C.27.a.2.8 – VIII Corps Diary
17 Jan 18   191 Coy – sos.  Were working at MANNERS JUNCTION unloading ammo and RE stores having relieved Bermuda RGA. – VIII Corps Diary
46 Coy – due to replace 191 Coy.
3 Apr 18   31 Gp – 10, 38, 67, 126 & 191 Coys and 754 & 833 Area Coys – tos from Australian Corps. – IX Corps Diary
6 Apr 18   191 Coy – move from WINTON CAMP to DE SEULE – IX Corps Diary
8 Apr 18   Orders for Withdrawal – IX Corps Diary
1.   All  coys concentrate on BERTEHACRE 27/Q.28.b in two stages
2.   Stage 1
a.   Following move to FONTAIN HOUCK (27/X.4.a)
31 Gp HQ – 751 & 833 Area Coys – PALLISER Camp
191 Coy – LE SEULR Camp
3     Stage 2
All coys move from halting places to BERTENACRE (27/Q.28.b) where they will concentrate West of GODEWAESVELDE – BERTENACRE – TRIEUSHOUK road and more than a mile from BRETENACRE.  Gp HQ located at 27/Q.28.b
31 Gp – 10, 38, 67 & 191 Coys and 754 & 833 Area Coy – move to FONTAINE HOUCK en route to BERTENACRE
11 Apr 18   191 Coy – move to STRAZEELE – IX Corps Diary
11 Apr 18   191 Coy – move to STRAZELLE 36A/E.16.b.4.9 (74 Gp) from 28/T.9.a.6.7 (31 Gp) – RCE III – 2nd army Diary
13 Apr 18   191 Coy – move to WATTEN (65 Gp) from STRAZEELE (74 Gp) – roads – 2nd army Diary
19 Apr 18   191 Coy – move to CAMPAGNE (74 Gp) from WATTEN (65 Gp) – RCE III – 2nd army Diary
7 May 18   191 Coy – tos EBBLINGHEM (38 Gp) – No 15 CCS work – XV Corps Diary
7 May 18   191 Coy – move to EBBLINGHAM (39 Gp) from CAMPAGNE – revetting – 2nd Army Diary
9 May 18   1 pl 191 Coy – sos to AUDRUICQ – XV Corps Diary
10 May 18   Det 191 Coy – 80 ORs to BORRE – loading coal (15 day task) – XV Corps Diary
Det 191 Coy – 50 ORs to BORRE – salvaging railway material
15 May 18   191 Coy – work party at BORRE shelled – 1 man wounded – XV Corps Diary
21 May 18   191 Coy – 1 man wounded at BORRE – XV Corps Diary
27 May 18   191 Coy – 7 men wounded BORRE – XV Corps Diary
28 May 18   191 Coy – tasked to send 200 B (i) men, fully officered to the infantry.
1 Cape Coloured Bn – replace 191 Coy.  It was reorganised into two companies with Labour Corps establishment – XV Corps Diary
31 May 18   38 Gp – 38 & 191 Coys and 824 Area Coy and 1 Cape Coloured Bn – XV Corps Diary
5 Jun 18   11, 28 & 66 Gps – sos to XXII Corps (according to 6 May 18 these units were admin by XIX Corps) Units employed as follows: 6 roads, 4 BG rail, 5 Lt rail, 2 employments.
28 Gp – 3 (Alien), 38 & 191 Coys and 55 & 76 Coys CLC and 744 & 763 Area Coys – VII Corps Diary
6 Jun 18   191 Coy – sos to LES CINQ RUES – their work on Corps Light ammo dump passed to 1st Cape Coloured Bn – XV Corps Diary
6 Jun 18   191 Coy – move to 27/G.9.d.8.7 (28 Gp) from EBBLINGHEM – BG rail – 2nd Army Diary
7 Jun 18   28 Gp – 27A(NE)/L.11.a.4.2 – VII Corps Diary
191 Coy – 27/G.9.d.8.7 – BG rail
12 Jun 18   28 Gp – 27A(NE)/L.11.a.4.2 – VII Corps Diary
191 Coy – 27/G.9.d.8.7 – BG rail
4 Jul 18   1 pl 191 Coy – move to HONDEGHEM – VII Corps Diary
11 Jul 18   3 Alien, 38, & 191 Coys and 763 Area Coy and 76 Coy CLC – tos 75 Gp – VII Corps Diary
1 pl 38 Coy – attached to 191 Coy
7 Aug 18   191 Coy – move from 75 Gp to 27A/L.26 (12 Gp) – Lt rail with 6 Survey Section.  Det working at HONDEGHEM with 277 Railway Coy RE – VII Corps Diary
22 Aug 18   191 Coy – 104 ORs tos – VII Corps Diary
23 Aug 18   191 Coy – sos to EBBLINGHEM (XV Corps) – VII Corps Diary
23 Aug 18   191 Coy – move to 27/T.27.d.7.7 (33 Gp) from 27A/L.26.d.3.2 (12 Gp) – misc – 2nd Army Diary
23 Aug 18   191 Coy – tos PONT ASQUIN 33 Gp – XV Corps Diary
24 Aug 18   191 Coy – sos to 3rd Army – XV Corps Diary
24 Aug 18   191 Coy – sos to 3rd Army – 2nd Army Diary
25 Aug 18   35 & 191 Coys – tos PUISIENX form 2nd Army – 3rd Army Diary
24 Sep 18   65 & 191 Coys – released from BG rail – 3rd Army Diary
25 Sep 18   65 & 191 Coys – sos from LE TRANSLOY to 4th Army – 3rd Army Diary
25 Sep 18   65 & 191 Coys – sos to 4th Army Area – ANZAC Corps Diary
21 Oct 18   Units sos to IX Corps: - ANZAC Corps Diary
47 & 63 Gps - 28, 44, 65, 67, 74, 85, 150, 156, 160, 167, 187, 191, 199, 708, 713, 722, 724 & 729 Coys and ½ 8 Coy CLC and 37, 143, 216 & 260 PW Coy
2 Dec 18   191 Coy – tos BOHAIN from 4th Army – 3rd Army Diary
9 Jan 19   Units Disbanding - 3rd Army.  11, 36, 42, 82, 85, 88, 107, 120, 128, 142, 145, 146, 177, 191 & 731 Coys (Total 15) – GHQ Diary

[alan8376]

Thanks for the diary for 191st Coy, it is certainly well detailed. 

My grandfather was with them the Coy from May - Sept 1917. His next posting was with Yorks & Lancs. Maybe the Italy connection comes from there?


Alan