Author Topic: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion  (Read 7817 times)

Offline Bob.NB

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Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« on: December 11, 2011, 04:50:09 PM »
Following my earlier query, the 4th Volunteer Battalion Medal in the photographs below is named to “No 5232 Pioneer W.A.Franklin”.  The ribbon is modern and not the correct one.
I have seen a very similar medal to “No 4252 Sgt J.Aldred” which is suspended from a plain blue ribbon and is suspended from a silver brooch bar which has the words “Battalion Eight” on in. This was for sale a few years ago with two unconnected shooting medals.
Looking on Ancestry I have found a William A Franklin living in Salford in the 1901 census. He is described as being “Locksmith at prison & Sgt pioneer 4th V.B. Manch Regt” so this is definitely the same man. He was born in Macclesfield, Cheshire around 1843. In the 1891 census he is shown as a “whitesmith” (this was lighter work than a blacksmith). There is a similar W.A.Franklin in the 1881, 1871 and 1861 censuses but he has a different wife (she may have then died?).
There is an MIC for a 1914/15 Star to Pte 2328 William A Franklin of the Manchester Regiment who later served in the RAF (I can find no MIC for a BWM & Vic Medal!) but I doubt this is the same man as my William would have been about 71 in 1914. WO329/2930 does not specify which battalion he was in but I think it was the 7th. This William was wounded in Gallipoli in 1915. I think this could well be the son of “my” William.
My questions are as follows:
1) What was this medal awarded for?  Is it a shooting medal? To win a shooting medal at the age of 58 would be quite something! There is a Col Sgt W A Franklin mentioned in the shooting team in the first regimental Journal in 1913 (page 47) but I think this is the one on the MIC.
2) What did a sergeant pioneer and pioneers in general do?
3) What was a battalion eight? I assume they were a shooting team and not a rowing eight!
4) Does anyone know anything else about William A Franklin?
As always any help or advice most gratefully received.
Thank you.
Bob B

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 04:51:07 PM »
Here is the other photo.
Bob B

Offline mack

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 08:10:20 PM »
hiya bob.
sgt franklins full name was william,allieff franklin,his first wife jane,died in 1883 and he then married margaret,ann simpson in 1884,his oldest son to margaret was also named william,allieff franklin,sgt franklin died in salford in 1908 and margaret moved to durham[her birth place]william jnr was living at 26 verdon st,cheetham hill rd when the war began,with his wife leah.

simon should be able to tell you what the medal is

mack ;D

Offline sphinx

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 11:30:50 PM »
Bob,

I own the aforesaid medal to 4252  Sgt. J. Aldred, hallmarked 1901 with the Battalion Eight clasp fitted.

I havent found out what the "Bn 8" was yet.

Your man was presented with his VLS&GC Medal on Saturday 23rd March 1895 at Manchester Town Hall.  He was a private then, not a pioneer.

Yours, as you know is missing the top clasp and has an incorrect ribbon.

regards

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 05:19:51 PM »
Mack,
Many thanks for this - you have cleared up one of my queries.

Spinx,
Many thanks for this. Very interested and delighted to hear of the Volunteer LSGC medal.
Is there a roll for this?
Where can one find this information?
I think I saw that the Regimental Archives had a roll for the 3rd Vol Battalion but I've never found one for the other battalions.

Bob B

Offline sphinx

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 06:23:40 PM »
Bob, 

I dont have any rolls, and I am 99.9% sure that there is not one for the 3VB at the archives either.

Information is in the 1900 publication, "The history of the 4th VB Manchester Regiment".

regards

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 05:58:39 PM »
Sphinx,
Many thanks for this info, I had completely forgotten to look there.
I found an old "roll" in the archives last year which I think may be for the 3rd VB. It dated from the 1880s/1890s and was, from memory, an enlistment book/roll or similar and there were notes against the names of some of the men which included information such as who had gone to South Africa and who had been awarded the Volunteer LSGC.
Thanks again.
Bob B

Offline sphinx

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 06:15:29 PM »
Bob,

I will try and find that next week.

regards

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2011, 04:44:56 PM »
Sphinx,
Happy hunting.
One more bit of information.
Last night a collector of shooting medals informed me that army shooting teams could vary in size greatly depending on the competition but that the standard size for a battalion shooting team was either 8 or 20 (depending on the type of competition) so the medal's not for rowing!
Best wishes.
Bob

Offline sphinx

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2011, 05:08:05 PM »
thanks Bob

timberman

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2011, 06:25:40 PM »

Posted for Migky


William Franklin married  Jane Patterson  Dec 1/4 1862 St. Peter, Prestbury, Macclesfield.
Jane died  Sept 1/4 Stockport, Cheshire.

William Allieff  Franklin remarried Margaret Ann Simpson


Migky.

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 07:06:14 PM »
The wedding certificate i originally posted seems to have gone A.W.O.L. ?

Migky ;)

Migky.

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 07:56:57 PM »
Lucky i kept a copy  ;D

Click here for the weding certificate

Migky  ;)

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2011, 08:45:41 AM »
Migky,
Very many thanks for this.

Sphinx,
Looking at my records it is a document on the 5th (Ardwick) Voluteer Battalion. Stupidly I forgot to keep a note of its reference number.

Thanks again everyone.
Bob B

Offline sphinx

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Re: Pioneer William A Franklin - 4th Volunteer Battalion
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2011, 01:40:05 PM »
OK thanks Bob