Author Topic: Colour Sergeant  (Read 13250 times)

AndyB

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Colour Sergeant
« on: January 07, 2011, 01:42:45 PM »
I'm researching my family and was looking for information on a John Clavin who was an army officer. Whilst searching Ancestry I came across a record for a J Clavin in the Manchester Regiment who was wounded at Senekal on 10th Feb 1902. He was in the South Africa Field Force, 6th Batallion Manchester Regiment. His number was 1454.

I want to ask two things:
1. Does anyone have any more information on this person (To see if he matches the person I am after)
2. His rank is down as Colonel Sergeant. Where does this fit in with current ranks etc and what would his job likely to involve.

Thanks

Andy
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 10:25:53 PM by AndyB »

Offline Robert Bonner

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Re: Colonel Sergeant
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 03:12:01 PM »
Andy.
It looks as if 1454 J Clavin was serving with the 6th (Militia) Battalion of the Regiment. There is no such rank as Colonel Sergeant and he was probably a Colour Sergeant. That is a senior non-commissioned officer charged with a great deal of responsibility.  Because of this he was probably also a pre-war Militiaman.

This battalion, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel C D Leyden, after volunteering its services for overseas duties, was only involved during the last months of the war although drafts of officers and men had been sent to both the 1st and 2nd Battalions during the war. Several served in the 18th Battalion Mounted Infantry and Captain R J A Terry served with Driscoll’s Scouts.

The battalion embarked for South Africa on the Dilwara on 13 February 1902 strength 20 officers and 645 NCOs and men, arriving in Cape Town 5th March. When leaving Southampton the weather was so cold that the men wore their scarlet tunics and greatcoats. On arrival they entrained for Norvals Pont on the Orange River to relieve 3rd Battalion Norfolk Regiment. There they manned the blockhouse line between Jagersfontein and Achterlong Station, a distance of thirty-six miles, later extended to Tweedale.  Headquarters were established at Norvals Pont. A garrison was also provided at Colesberg Town to guard and escort Boer prisoners. At the end of the war the battalion left for England on 7 September 1902 on the Guelph.

I hope that you will find this of help.
Robert


Robert

Offline themonsstar

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Re: Colonel Sergeant
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 05:07:43 PM »
He's on the 6th Bn medal roll 1901 (KSA) with two clasps Cape Colony & Orange Free State

AndyB

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Re: Colonel Sergeant
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2011, 05:47:50 PM »
Thanks for the speedy replies.
I did think that the rank was funny and what you put makes sense.
Thanks for the medal roll as well.

I wonder if there is a full record of him somewhere to see what his first name was. Not sure if this is the Clavin I'm looking for as he was described as an 'army officer'.

Offline themonsstar

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Re: Colonel Sergeant
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 09:32:15 AM »
You should try WO96 Militia service records at Kew London.

AndyB

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Re: Colour Sergeant
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 09:47:54 PM »
Ok so I have a bit more info now but also some more questions.

1454 Colour Sergeant John Clavin joined the army in April 1872 (1st East Surrey Reg). He spent 12 years with them (With possibly a stint in Strangeways for deserting from 31st Regt of Infantry - not sure if this is the same John Clavin) before transferring to the 6th Manchester Reg.
He served with them for 17 years and 352 days. He was wounded in action in SA on 10th Feb 1902 at Senekal. (Confused here as it has been said that the regiment didn't set off for SA until 13th Feb). On his pension he is only credited with 22 years - 7 are discounted. Why would this be?
Can't find him on any census records except 1911. Did the army keep separate census records or would the whole barracks have been done. If this is so where were the barracks? He was married in 1881 and had children but can't really find much about them. Still a long way to go but any help would be much appreciated.

Offline george.theshed197

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Re: Colour Sergeant
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2012, 12:41:30 PM »
Any idea as to what his date of birth was?

George.

Offline george.theshed197

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Re: Colour Sergeant
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2012, 01:06:53 PM »
Answering my own queries!!

John CLAVIN 56 1855 Retired Army Pensioner Manchester, Lancashire.
Mary Ann  "   53 1858                                           "                "
James       "   19 1892 Lithographic Printer Apprentice "            "

Married - Chorlton, Manchester,  1881, 2nd qtr. 8C : 1078 to Mary Ann LYNCH.
Residing at 23 Whitfield Street, Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester,

RG14PN23831 RG78PN1379 RD464 SD3 ED
According to 1911 Census - Married 28 years( but the only possible registration is in fact 1881). They had 4 children born alive : 3 still living and 1 died.

Now looking for the rest of  his possible family.

Cheers,
George.

Offline george.theshed197

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Re: Colour Sergeant
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2012, 01:40:57 PM »
Final phase -

In the 1901 Census it shows -

CLAVIN, Mary A.            Married. 41, 1860, Charwoman, Manchester, Lancs.
      "      Elizabeth  Sgle. Dau.     19, 1882, Domestic General.  "          "
      "      James      Sgle  Son.      10. 1891,                             "         "

Residing at 6, Crawshaw Street, (All Saints), South Manchester, RG13/ 3693/ 121/ 34.

No reference made to John the husband but as she stated married he must be still alive! possible doing  ;D ;D ;D 'chokey' More than likely still serving in SA.

Thats it from AP ; UP : and INS.
George.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 01:42:44 PM by george.theshed197 »

Offline george.theshed197

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Re: Colour Sergeant
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2012, 05:48:47 PM »
The 6th Bn The Manchester Regiment had their Drill Hall on Stretford Road. All Saints, Chorlton-on-Medlock (now all buried beneath the Mancunian Way) in actual fact adjoining the lower half of Pauldens Store, the latter was destroyed by fire after the 1939/45 war, so if the truth was known not very far from where John CLAVIN lived.
I have not been regretably been able to find the family member who died at birth or very young.

Cheers anyway,
George.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 05:50:20 PM by george.theshed197 »

AndyB

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Re: Colour Sergeant
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2012, 09:33:00 PM »
Final phase -

In the 1901 Census it shows -

CLAVIN, Mary A.            Married. 41, 1860, Charwoman, Manchester, Lancs.
      "      Elizabeth  Sgle. Dau.     19, 1882, Domestic General.  "          "
      "      James      Sgle  Son.      10. 1891,                             "         "

Residing at 6, Crawshaw Street, (All Saints), South Manchester, RG13/ 3693/ 121/ 34.

No reference made to John the husband but as she stated married he must be still alive! possible doing  ;D ;D ;D 'chokey' More than likely still serving in SA.

Thats it from AP ; UP : and INS.
George.
Crawshaw Street was where he listed as home on his pension forms.

AndyB

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Re: Colour Sergeant
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2012, 09:34:36 PM »
Thanks George for all the info. It has set me off again. Thanks.

AndyB

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Re: Colour Sergeant
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2012, 10:48:21 PM »
Just found Mary Ann who was in and out of the workhouse 11 times between May 1890 and April 1894.
She was accompanied by Elizabeth and Ellen to begin with and then later James (who was in and out 7 times in his first 2 years.)
All this time I suppose John was still in the army but unable to keep them. As Elizabeth was my Great Gran and James is mentioned in 1911 Ellen could be the child who died as she is not mentioned on the 1901 census. (although an older child before Elizabeth may have been the one who died)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 10:50:05 PM by AndyB »

sphinx

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Re: Colour Sergeant
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2012, 08:31:20 PM »
The 6th Bn The Manchester Regiment had their Drill Hall on Stretford Road. All Saints, Chorlton-on-Medlock (now all buried beneath the Mancunian Way) in actual fact adjoining the lower half of Pauldens Store, the latter was destroyed by fire after the 1939/45 war, so if the truth was known not very far from where John CLAVIN lived.

The above is incorrect information.

Your ancestor was in the 6th Militia Bn. which in 1908 became the 4th (Extra Reserve) Bn.

The 6th (Territorial Force) Bn at the Stretford Road HQ were an entirely different Bn and nothing to do with the Militia.

regards