Norman Fowler Wilson, 6819, Pte 16th Manchesters, kia Montauban 1/7/1916.

[tonyrod]

hi grimmy, to start you off,
FROM CWGC.
WILSON, NORMAN FOWLER
Initials:     N F
Nationality:     United Kingdom
Rank:     Private
Regiment/Service:     Manchester Regiment
Unit Text:     16th Bn.
Age:     27
Date of Death:     01/07/1916
Service No:     6819
Additional information: Son of James Herbert and Emily Wilson, of Oldham; husband of Margaret Ann Rogerson (formerly Wilson), of The Beeches, Goldsworthy Rd., Flixton, Manchester.
Casualty Type:     Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:     V. W. 2.
Cemetery:     DANTZIG ALLEY BRITISH CEMETERY, MAMETZ

DANTZIG ALLEY BRITISH CEMETERY, MAMETZ
Country:     France
Locality:     Somme
Visiting Information:     Wheelchair access to site is possible, but may be by alternative entrance.
For further information regarding wheelchair access, please contact our Enquiries Section
on 01628 507200.
Location Information:     Mametz is a village about 8 kilometres east of the town of Albert.
The Cemetery is a little east of the village on the north side of the road (D64) to
Montauban.
Historical Information: The village of Mametz was carried by the 7th Division on
1 July 1916, the first day of the Battle of the Somme, after very hard fighting at
Dantzig Alley (a German trench) and other points. The cemetery was begun later in the
same month and was used by field ambulances and fighting units until the following
November. The ground was lost during the great German advance in March 1918 but regained
in August, and a few graves were added to the cemetery in August and September 1918.
At the Armistice, the cemetery consisted of 183 graves, now in Plot I, but it was then
very greatly increased by graves (almost all of 1916) brought in from the battlefields
north and east of Mametz and from certain smaller burial grounds, including:-
AEROPLANE CEMETERY, FRICOURT, on the old German front line to the south of
Fricourt village. It contained the graves of 24 N.C.Os. and men of the 20th Manchesters
who died on 1 July 1916. BOTTOM WOOD CEMETERY, FRICOURT, on the south edge of a small wood
between Mametz and Fricourt Woods. This was a field ambulance station for some months
from July 1916, and the cemetery contained 104 graves. BULGAR ALLEY CEMETERY, MAMETZ, 230
metres east of the village, named from a trench. It contained the graves of 24 soldiers
who died on 1 July 1916, and all but one of whom belonged to the 22nd Manchesters.
HARE LANE CEMETERY, FRICOURT, at the north-west corner of the village, named from a trench
. It contained the graves of 54 soldiers who died on 1 and 2 July 1916, and of whom 49
belonged to the 10th West Yorks. MAMETZ GERMAN CEMETERY, in which 12 soldiers were buried
by their comrades in July and August 1916. This cemetery was near the crossing of the
Fricourt-Maricourt and Mametz-Bray roads. MANSEL COPSE CEMETERY, MAMETZ, on the
Fricourt-Maricourt road, near the present Devonshire Cemetery: and
MANSEL COPSE WEST CEMETERY, MAMETZ, 460 metres further west. These contained the graves of
51 men of the 2nd Border Regiment, who died on 1 July 1916. MONTAUBAN ROAD CEMETERY,
CARNOY, which contained the graves of 25 soldiers (almost all of the 18th Division)
who died on 1 July 1916. VERNON STREET CEMETERY, CARNOY, in the valley between Carnoy and
Maricourt, at a place called "Squeak Forward Position". 110 soldiers who died in
July-October 1916 were buried here by the 21st Infantry Brigade and other units.
Dantzig Alley British Cemetery now contains 2,053 burials and commemorations of the First
World War. 518 of the burials are unidentified but there are special memorials to 17
casualties known or believed to be buried among them. Other special memorials record the
names of 71 casualties buried in other cemeteries, whose graves were destroyed by shell
fire. The cemetery was designed by Sir Herbert Baker.
No. of Identified Casualties:     1535

[grimmy]

Thanks tonyrod. That's the one and only record I have seen. As well as his CWGC grave, he is commemorated in Greenacres Cemetery, near Oldham.

What puzzles me is why I can't find any other record about him (I can't even find him in Soldiers who died in the Great War on Ancestry.com).

I have found him listed on this site amongst the Battalion Photos (X Platoon, C Coy, 16th Reg), though I don't know what he looks like.

On the plus side, I do have a photo of his Platoon Section taken at Heaton Park in 1915 which I'd like to post here - unfortunately I don't have access to any scanning facilities. 

[harribobs]

From Soldiers Died in the Great War

click image for bigger

chris

[tonyrod]

grimmy, try these links
http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/somme/mametz.html    

http://www.themanchesters.org/16th%20batt.htm

90th Brigade     
16th Bn, the Manchester Regiment    left as cadre June 1918
17th Bn, the Manchester Regiment    left February 1918
18th Bn, the Manchester Regiment    disbanded February 1918
19th Bn, the Manchester Regiment    left December 1915
2nd Bn, the Royal Scots Fusiliers    joined December 1915
90th Machine Gun Company    joined 13 March 1916, moved to 30th Bn MGC 1 March 1918
90th Trench Mortar Battery    formed by 16 June 1916
2nd Bn, the Bedfordshire Regiment    joined February 1918, left May 1918
14th Bn, the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders    joined April 1918, left June 1918
2/14th Bn, the London Regiment    joined July 1918
2/15th Bn, the London Regiment    joined July 1918
2/16th Bn, the London Regiment    joined July 1918

[migky]

This site will email you a picture of his grave at DANTZIG ALLEY BRITISH CEMETERY, MAMETZ
for £3

Click here for Norman Fowler Wilson's grave phot

Migky 

[grimmy]

Thanks guys, that's great.

I always felt sorry for Norman; he never knew his father, James Herbert Wilson, who died the same year that he was born (Norman may even have been born posthumously). His mother was a Fowler (hence the middle name).

He married Margaret Ann Webb in 1911 - no children so far as I know. She remarried after his death. Anyone who could possibly know anything about him has passed away 

Thanks again.

[mack]

normans will was published on 27-5-1919

norman fowler wilson
45 alderley rd,flixton
died 1st july 1916
16th manchesters
probate,manchester
left �112.10s to albert jackson[solicitor]

in july 1916,the address given for him,was 15 cambridge st,lower broughton,his late father lived at fern st,oldham.

i think he lived most of his childhood at his grandparents william+mary,hannah fowler,they had a butchers shop at 138/140 egerton rd,oldham

there was a reference to him in the oldham chronicle on 22-7-1916,pages 6+7 and again on 29-7-16 page 7

mack

[timberman]

 Hi grimmy

If you go to this link of our main site,

http://www.themanchesters.org/indexold.html

click on the section 1st Anniversary of the Somme Memorials

Tisgranny has reproduced the messages from the local papers and Norman is mentioned twice.
It does say the 19th Manchesters.

Timberman

[grimmy]

You guys are amazing!

I've checked my family records and Norman did in fact have a daughter, Edith Margaret b.1912. She married Robert Harrison at Flixton in 1932.

mack yes, it is my understanding (and confirmed by the census) that he lived with William Fowler and Mary Hannah (nee Tong), my 2xgt grandparents. I have several old photographs (c.1910) of the butcher's shop on Egerton Road, Oldham, with their son John, who carried on the business, standing outside.

After Norman's death his widow Margaret Ann married John Rogerson in 1917.

timberman thanks for that. I don't understand the reference to the 19th - every other existing record says the 16th.

I have a postcard-size photograph of a group of soldiers. On the reverse is written:

No. 8 Section
10 Platoon
16th Batn
Manchester Regt
taken at
Heaton Park
March 1915

He's on there somewhere!

Many thanks for your help.

[grimmy]

N.F.Wilson is on here somewhere. Unfortunately I don't know which is him:

[Tim Bell]

Hi Grimmy,
Great Picture.  Thanks for posting.

Soldiers Effects refers to John Rogerson (his widow's next husband) as a "Guardian of Child" and recipient of more than �5.

Edith Margaret Wilson b 27/11/1912

Tim

[mack]

norman,herbert,fowler Wilson
born 9-12-1914
baptised st.james church,broughton.10th march 1920
39 Vernon st,broughton
parents.norman,fowler wilson[deceased]+margaret
died barton 1939 aged 24

mack

[grimmy]

Thanks Tim and Mack.

During my absence from the Forum I have found out more about his family:

Daughter Edith Margaret Wilson married a Robert Harrison at Flixton, St Michael in 1932.

Son Norman Herbert Fowler Wilson died in 1939  (death registered at Barton).

There was also another daughter Dorothy Wilson (birth registered at Salford, 1915).

John Rogerson and Margaret Ann (Norman's widow) had twins George and Mary. Born in 1917, they both died the same year.

The following photo may be of Norman Fowler Wilson with his mother (the lady appears to be in mourning dress). They are certainly relatives of mine and I can't think who else they could be.

[Tim Bell]

Hi Grimmy,
I've been looking a concentration records for Dantzig Alley and found Norman was originally buried in no mans land, just north of Talus Bois.  This was a large burial plot for 90th Brigade.  It includes men picked up from the battlefield by burial parties and some who died of wounds at a dressing station that was at the end of the wood.
Mentioned Salford Advertiser/Salford Reporter entries: 22/07/16
Cheers
Tim

[grimmy]

Hi Tim,

Many thanks for that (and sorry for the late reply).

It all sounds pretty horrible, of course, but at least they found him and I'll always be grateful for that.

Thanks again.
Grimmy