Grand Father Harold

[harold]

Hi All,

Second time lucky! i've just typed this and lost it so if you find two messages from me floating around - apologies!

I'm looking for details of my Gradfathers service records, sadly I never met him and i'm going off snippets of information my late Mother told me, so relying on my memory is a bit of a long shot! 

His name was Harold Heron, he was born in Bradford, Manchester in 1890 and died in 1927 I believe in Salford. He served in the Manchester Regiment and I recall my Mother telling me that he was recalled from India (suggesting he was a regular) to serve in the Great War.  He was medically discharged due to a heart condition, but I am unsure which year this was.

I have search on a number of site's such as Ancestory, Find my Past and National Archieves, without much luck, do you think its because I only have this limited information? To be honest I don't have much faith in such sites and would really appreciate some genuine advice, can anyone out there help?

Many Thanks in advance
Harold

[harribobs]

hi harold

and welcome to the group

i will move this over to the great war section where it will be looked at by the experts there.

we certainly have a good possible, in fact the only H Heron i can find in the Manchesters

Description     
Medal card of Heron, H
Corps   Regiment No   Rank
Manchester Regiment    21064    Private
Date    1914-1920
Catalogue reference    WO 372/9links to the Catalogue

chris

[skypilot]

He has no medal index card suggesting that he did not serve outside of the UK during WW1, although he may have been entitled to other medals for his Indian service - see below. The card reference above refers to his award of the Silver War Badge. This was awarded to all service personnel discharged due to ill-health either due to combat related injuries or sickness. This badge, a silver circular cypher of King George V, was worn in civillian clothing on the jacket lapel to show you had "done your bit" and thus avoid the barracking that those not having served might get from somewhat over-zealous patriots. It was quite normal for chaps without such a badge to be given a white feather! Each badge is individually numbered (not with his service number) and is researcheable through the files held at The National Archives.

In Harold's case, the card states that he enlisted on 19.04.1915 and was discharged due to sickness 6.3.1916 under King's Regulations Para 392 XVI. he had served in the supernumary company of the 6th Manchester Regt.

He may have been entitled to an army pension but only if his sickness was directly related to his military service. If it was a heart condition, then this may have precluded that and I certainly have not been able to locate a pension record for him. There doesn't appear to be a surviving service record for him either so there's not too much else I can add on his military service although others here might be able to, although I can tell you that in 1911 he was serving as a Private in the 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment in Kamptee (modern day Kampthi), Nagpur, India - thus bearing out the story you have been told. See here for more info on Kamptee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamptee

On the civillian side of things, I can tell you that he was born in approx. 1888, in Manchester. I believe that he married Lilly Burrows in 1912?  His death was recorded in the 4th quarter of 1927 and indicates he was 40 years old at the time of his death.

It would appear that his parents were Austin As(s)hur, (b.1857, a Mantle/cloth Cutter), and Hannah Widdowson (b. 1855) - they married in 1884 in Manchester. Harold had a least two siblings, Lilian (b. 1887) and Emily (b.1896). All of the family are shown as having been born in Manchester. Austin's parents were Thomas, an engine fitter and Mary, a milliner.

Austin and Hannah died the same year, 1941 in Manchester. Hannah's death was registered in the 1st quarter of the year and Austin's in the 4th.

[harribobs]

From the NA site 

The Silver War Badge



The Silver War Badge, sometimes erroneously called the Silver Wound Badge, was authorised in September 1916 and takes the form of a circular badge with the legend "For King and Empire-Services Rendered" surrounding the George V cypher. The badge was awarded to all of those military personnel who were discharged as a result of sickness or wounds contracted or received during the war, either at home or overseas.

[skypilot]

That's the one. As I mentioned, each badge is numbered and it should be possible to find out what number your grandfather's badge was by getting a researcher to check the rolls for you at TNA.

[mack]

there was a harold heron buried in gorton cemetery on 16-11-1927,grave ref WC.65,also in the grave is lily heron,buried 20-8-1924

mack

[skypilot]

I can also add a couple of pictures from the 1st Battalion in Kamptee 1910. Below are the officers, the only ones named in the album. If anyone would like more pics, let me know and I'll post them.

[tonyrod]

hi harold ,welcome to the forum, to add my little bit,
1911 census,
HERON   HAROLD 1890   21 Overseas Military

my site  ,http://tonyrod.webs.com/

[harold]

second go first email lost in the ether

hallo all
excellent news regarding my granddad Harold i have searched this last ten years for this information.

regarding the heron family you have them spot on although i have managed to go a little further back a trip to Ireland i think is called for.

you have the correct grave Lily was Harold wife also my mother is in the grave now and was also called Lily.

my mother was orphaned at fairly young age i did not have the hart to question her about my gran and grandad. one day i was talking to my mother i said its my lucky day the wife has bought me a bottle of teachers whisky, my dad use to drink teachers my mother said it use to help the pain in his chest! and then mother mentioned coming home from India and going to the war the one only time he was mentioned.

more photos please


i think i have coved all points. i have my grandads struggle with the written word hope this email makes sense.  Harold.

[harold]

Hello All,

Skypilot you have started me thinking! and I recall another snippet. My Aunt (Harold sister) told me he did serve in France. As the story goes she told me about a time when he went to see his Uncle Jack Lees, who was a serving solider (sorry no service number for him), who was at home either on leave or wounded, to find out what he was facing in France, so from this I've always assumed he did go.

Also, another thing that's always puzzled me was when he left the army I was told he had a job to go to as a Groom in Cheshire. I've always found this puzzling, why would a Bradford Lad have such a job? I can only think that he was given this through one of the Officers in the regiment, although I doubt i'll ever find the true answer to that part! But would it be possible to trace if any of the Officers in the Manchester Regiment did come from Cheshire in the time of Harolds Service?

Anyhow... Thanks for your help so far!

Kind Regards H