Harry Cochrane 6971 16th batt

[Andrew123]

Hello everyone,

Having been fortunate enough to find my great uncle Harry's service record on Ancestry I find I am left with more questions than answers......... so any help will be most warmly received.

Harry Cochrane joined up on 2.9.1914 and appears to have been with the 16th Manchesters under regimental number 6971. He was captured on the 10.7.1916 at Trones Wood.

I would like to know about the action in which he was captured if that detail is available.

Having been captured, his last place of internment is noted as "Sprattan" or at least I think that is correct.
I am pretty certain as to all the letters except the first two. The S is the most suspect

Anything that you have please. Many thanks.

Andrew

[mack]

pte 6971 harry cochrane
enl 2-9-14
aged 24
16th manchesters
D.coy
occupation,cotton warehouseman
went to france,on 8-11-15
taken prisoner on 10-7-16
apart from the wounded and the officers,most of the manchesters ended up in dulmen POW camp westphalia.
i think sprottau camp was being used as a half way camp after the war,it had a TB barrack,so its possible that the men who passed through it,on their way home,were being medically assessed,most of the manchesters were only there for two days,most of the 16th manchesters,were repatriated at hull,the sick were sent to various hospitals all round the country,the rest went to No4 camp thannington,it was a POW recieving camp.
harry arrived at sprottau on 15th jan 1918 and left for england on 17th jan

mack

[pete th]

Andrew, is it Sprottau POW Camp? This camp was somewhere near the Austrian border. Four men from our area, serving with the 18th Manchesters, were captured at Guillemont on the 30th July 1916.

Hope this helps

Pete

[Andrew123]

Gentlemen, thank you. The internet is a wonderful thing.

Whilst somewhat reluctant to ask in fear of it being like the magic circle, but how the heck do you know that?!!!!!!!!

I believe you, I do, but its over 90 years ago. How do you just tap into that knowledge. As the kid always says, "I would love to be able to do that".

Thank you.

Kindest regards

Andrew Jordan

[mack]

Gentlemen, thank you. The internet is a wonderful thing.

Whilst somewhat reluctant to ask in fear of it being like the magic circle, but how the heck do you know that?!!!!!!!!

I believe you, I do, but its over 90 years ago. How do you just tap into that knowledge. As the kid always says, "I would love to be able to do that".

Thank you.

Kindest regards

Andrew Jordan

your welcome andrew

mack

[DaveMurphy]

Andrew,

Welcoem to the forum, you have certainly come to the right place for info on the 16th Manchesters!

Is there any chance you have a photo of uncle Harry?

I am databasing the 16th Manchesters (my Great Grandfather was their Quartermaster throughout the War), and would love to have a look at the Service Record.

Remeber that the information that we manage to cobble together together via the internet is only possible due to the meticulous recording and archiving of our fathers and mothers all those years ago.

Cheers,

Dave

[Andrew123]

Hi Dave,

Sadly no picture but I have downloaded his service record which I will gladly email you if you let me have your address.

Do you know what was going on at Trones Wood on the 10.7.1916; I have checked out the Great War forum and it would seem that a large group (50) of the 16th Manchesters were captured that day after not getting their order to withdraw. Do you have a member who has the battalion war diary?

Look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards

Andrew

[harribobs]

Hi Andrew

do you have his platoon photo?

cheers

chris

[Andrew123]

Hi Chris,

No photo's of him at all; from his family I have his elder brother who was my grandfather and thats my lot. Interestingly (?) my grandfather was part of the war government apparatus as he was part of the TUC relating to how workers were treated during the push of the war effort.

Do you have a photo of his company?

Kind regards

Andrew

[harribobs]

he is on this photo, he was in 16th Battalion D company Platoon 14

unfortunately we don't know which one is him

chris

(click for a bigger image)

[mack]

excellent chris

mack

[Andrew123]

Chris,

That is oustanding, truly oustanding.

I have a picture of my grandfather, Harry's brother, when he was a young man. If memory serves me well he had very strong features, particularly his nose.

I accept that I may never know for certain which one is him, but your retrieval of this photo has me utterly intrigued. So forgive me for what is almost certainly a wild goose chase but.........

1. There are 50 men in the photograph of platoon 14 D Company. Is this the regular number of a platoon?

2. What is the exact make up of a platoon? ie How many Privates, Corporals, Sargeants, Lieutenants, Captains etc.?

3. Looking at the photo it would appear as if the photographer has made a best attempt to pose the men (eg front row, arms folded left over right, drummer in the centre). Was there a set plan for these shots?

4.Behind the drummer would appear to be the senior officer, to his left, a one stripe man (corporal?) and to his right a three stripe man (sargeant?). Were stripes worn on both sleeves of a uniform? Can we deduce that the second row back are the officers and NCO's?

5. The third row back appears to contain three men in different style of uniform; one on each end and one behind the centre drummer. The material of the uniform appears darker and they appear to have braiding from their left shoulder eppolet (I think that is what it is called and I am sure that is not how you spell it) to their top left pocket. What does this signify?

6. Do you know when this was taken?

7. Do you know the identities of any of the men on the photo?

8. Was facial hair acceptable for all ranks?

I would love to see Harry's face for the first time and a process of elimination may do it. I need to find his brother's photo now and a magnifying glass..........

Thank you so much for your efforts, my family will be really chuffed with what you have given us.

Kindest regards

Andrew

[harribobs]

hi andrew

glad you like it!

i will try to answer your questions

1 yes, approx 50 to a company

2 see attachment below(click it for a bigger image)

3 not really, but most are done in this manner

4 one strip lance corporal, 2 stripes corporal, 3 stripes Sergeant, worn on one sleeve
5 there is no significance in the darker materials or lanyard ( it probably held a pocket knife
6 probably early 1915 ( the trees are bare if you notice)

7 yes, all of them but not which one is which

8 yes, in some regiments it was mandatory


below is a list of all the men in the company

chris
 

[DaveMurphy]

Andrew,

I have sent you a personal mail about the War Diary, let me know if you got it. May I suggest you print the photo as big as you can, and then black out the soldiers it couldn't be. Then try to match up the remaining with the photo you have, it helps to narrow it down a bit without staring at all the faces at once!

Cheers,

Dave