Frederick Naughton PTE 2960

[Andi]

Hi,

I'm looking for further info on the above soldier. A medal card on another site lists him firstly with Manch 'R' Pte 2960 then with Labour Corps Pte 403726.

I think it may be my Gt Grandfather William Naughtons brother. William was a Lancashire Fusilier killed in WW1 but no service record has survived as far as I can tell. I don't think Frederick was killed as there is no info on CWGC, but again no service record has survived.

Please can anyone guide me in the right direction?

Thanks
Andi

[mack]

hiya andi
pte 2960 frederick naughton landed in france,on 14th july 1915,he was transferred to the army reserve on 13-3-1919

there were two brothers,frederick+william,who were in salford union workhouse in 1891,frederick was 15yrs old and william 8yrs old at the time

mack

[Andi]

Thanks Mack,

I already knew about the census entry and am sure it is them but its just proving difficult to confirm it. I also think I have Frederick (spelt 'frederic') on 1881 but the name of the head doesn't tally with the one on William's wedding cert.................... 
Thank you for the information you have found i'm very grateful.

Andi

[Wendi]

Hi Andi and Welcome to our forum !

Have you looked for the death of the head of the family on William's wedding cert ?

Wendi 

[Andi]

Hi Wendi,

On William's wedding cert  in 1908 the entry for his father is Thomas Naughton (deceased). If I have the correct birth cert for William in 1883 it says his father is Charles Naughton, mother Lucy nee Annalls and the address is 9 Briddon St, Cheetham and if you look at 1881 census the family living at that address are Patrick and Lucy Naughton (inc Frederick). So you can see that it has become confusing. I have looked for the deaths and there is a Charles Patrick Naughton dies age 57 reg Salford in 1906 which could be something but there are about 3 Thomas Naughton deaths???
I will have to try and get to Liverpool rec office to see if there is film of William/Sarah marriage in 1908 to see if Thomas is a transcription error. Thanks for the hint though.
Any other ideas are welcomed.
Andi

[Wendi]

Hi Andi !

I can see your problem ~ part of the joys of research I' afraid    Certainly between 1881 & 1891 a lot of things happened in the family....

Lucy appears to have died in 1887 and Annie the youngest daughter is in Salford Union Infirmary in 1891, I wonder if records for Salford Union Workhouse are available somewhere ?

I would say that if William was only 3 or 4 when his mother died, and they were put on the workhouse, for what ever reason, dad was not about, then when he got married 20 odd years later, he might not have remembered his fathers first name correctly

One other thing, on the 1881 Census Patrick Naughton is listed as being a Sergeant in Army Reserves, have you thought about trying to obtain his service record from TNA ?

Wendi 

[Andi]

Hi Wendy,

I have thought about the service record but didn't know where to start so its been pushed to the back of my mind.
I agree with the death of their mother and have also wondered about William's memory of his father. I also think there is another girl in the workhouse with Annie too, if you look further down the page there is Mary Naughton age 5. In the past i've searched for births reg Prestwich and there are only a few, the last one being a girl Mary. Maybe another family member?

I have also searched for the Marriage of Patrick/Charles and Lucy without success. If they had married on an army base would we still have access to the details? Prob a stupid question but i'm asking anyway.

Thanks

Andi

[Wendi]

Well the Army Base thingy is a good lead, but I think his service record would give you more clues, and it would be at The National Archives in Kew.  Their Research Guides are helpful.  This one on Discharge Papers http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalarchives.gov.uk%2Fcatalogue%2Fleaflets%2Fri2005.htm&lBack=-1

If they were married abroad their marriage would probably be listed in the "Overseas Records" if the priest/vicar did his bit properly ~ I'm slightly unsure of Eire, but I think that although it was part of England then, the records were destroyed in the uprising (1921-2).

Wendi 

[Andi]

Thanks Wendi,

I can't get my head round them marrying abroad when Lucy was from Tilford in Surrey? These are just things to delve into further if I find that they are the right parents. I think I will order Frederick and Sarah Ann's wedding cert to see if it tells me anything new. 

Andi

[Wendi]

OK Andi !  Don't forget to let us know how you get on 

Wendi