5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900

[Wendi]

Grammer School ~ of course 

Interesting to me too, as I'm sure John and my GGrandfather, must have known each other !

Wendi 

[Dave Naden]

Hi,

I've been doing some further research recently into...

5222 Private W. Nadin, 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment, died of enteric fever (typhoid) in Ladysmith General Hospital, Natal on Friday, 8th June 1900.

I believe Walter A. Nadin was entitled to a Queen's South Africa medal with a Defence of Ladysmith clasp, and probably, the Elandslaagte clasp. Presumably, this award was presented to his family posthumously. I do not think Walter was awarded the King's South Africa medal, but I'm no expert.

Can anybody please confirm this.

Thanks in anticipation

Dave

[themonsstar]

Hi Dave

5222 Pte W Nadin 1st Bn QSA with D0L clasp in remarks it has (Dead). Next to him on the roll is 4247 J.Nadin QSA clasp (Natal).

[mack]

hiya dave.
theres a manchester grammar school register,it names all known staff and pupils,and it gives biographical details,manchester library have copies,ime sure you can get it on the inter library exchange thingy.

mack

[Dave Naden]

5222 Pte W Nadin 1st Bn QSA with D0L clasp in remarks it has (Dead). Next to him on the roll is 4247 J.Nadin QSA clasp (Natal).

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. That's excellent.

Please could you confirm 4247 J. Nadin was also in the 1st Bn. Manchester Regiment?
(I have my doubts as I would have thought both Nadin's would have been awarded the DOL clasp)

Interestingly, Walter (5222) had a brother, John C. Nadin, born 1878-79 in Ireland, who was 2 years older than Walter. Maybe the two brothers went to war together?

Thanks

Dave

[Dave Naden]

Theres a manchester grammar school register,it names all known staff and pupils,and it gives biographical details,manchester library have copies,ime sure you can get it on the inter library exchange thingy.

Thanks Mack, thats useful to know, especially as Walter's father was a Gymnastic Instructor at the Grammar School.

[Dave Naden]

5222 Pte W Nadin 1st Bn QSA with D0L clasp in remarks it has (Dead).

Next to him on the roll is 4247 J.Nadin QSA clasp (Natal).

Hi,

Having been in touch with "themonsstar", I now know a little more about 4247 Private J. Nadin, 1st Battalion, the Manchester Regiment, who was awarded the QSA medal with a Natal clasp.

I would like to publically thank "themonsstar" for his time and trouble.

I've been giving it some thought as to why he was awarded only the Natal clasp. J. Nadin probably arrived at Durban, Natal, South Africa on 20th September 1899 with the rest of his battalion, who served through the whole war.

What is curious, is that unlike many 1st Manchester's who was awarded the QSA with the Defence of Ladysmith clasp, J was awarded the QSA with the more 'general' Natal clasp. It is known the 1st Manchester's fought in the following battles, and many would have been awarded the following clasps...

• Elandslaagte, Natal, 21st October 1899.
• Defence of Ladysmith, Natal, 2 November 1899 to 28 February 1900.
• Belfast (and Bergendal), Transvaal, 27th August 1900.

- plus the following two clasps (I think)...

• South Africa 1901.
• South Africa 1902.

As J. Nadin was not awarded any of the above, I suspect a few days after arriving at Ladysmith, he could have been taken sick, and did not fight at either Elandslaagte (only 4 companires did) or at Lombard's Kop and Caesar's Camp. After the relief in February, he may then have invalided out of his battalion, and left South Africa before 1901. Althought present, I don't think he would have been eligible for the Defence of Ladysmith clasp.

Well that's one possible explanation. I guess we will never know for certain.

Any comments would be welcome.

Added at 22:05, Alternatively, he could have been taken prisoner!

Regards

[ladysmith]

Dave - Most, but by no means all, men who qualified for the Natal clasp served on detached duty south of Estcourt and never got to Ladysmith. However, men who were in Ladysmith and got out before the town was besieged would have received the Natal clasp provided they didn't also qualify for the Relief of Ladysmith, Talana or Elandslaagte clasps. 'State' clasps such as Natal could not be awarded together with a 'battle' clasp for the same state. Bizarrely Cape Colony and Natal clasps could not be awarded on the same medal either although Cape Colony plus a Natal battle clasp or Natal plus a Cape Colony battle clasp could be.

Some men wounded at Natal battles that were not covered by a separate battle clasp and evacuated down the line before Ladysmith was besieged would have received the Natal clasp provided (as above) they hadn't already qualified for Talana or Elandslaagte or didn't subsequently qualify for Relief of Ladysmith. These include Lombard's Kop, Nicholson's Nek and Rietfontein. It also covers men wounded at Willow Grange which was fought after Ladysmith was besieged, and some way from the town, by troops that were never based there. The only one of these actions the Manchesters fought in was Lombard's Kop.

A man, wounded or otherwise, who subsequently rejoined his battalion could add to his Natal clasp by taking part in such actions as Laings Nek or Belfast or simply by setting foot in Transvaal or Orange Free State as the British columns moved into the Boer republics. Some Manchesters took part in the Relief of Ladysmith and thereby qualified for that clasp instead of Natal and some of those also qualified for Tugela Heights.

Complicated? You bet!

David

[Dave Naden]

David,

Thanks for your reply.

Life's never simple!  I had assumed all members of the 1st Manchester's would have stayed and fought together. I was suprised to learn some of the 1st Manchester's could have fought alongside those relieving Ladysmith. I think the Manchester's must have fought their way through to Ladysmith after the urgent request for reinforcement. I guess it is possible that a few fought their way out again, e.g. runners taking messages etc. But there again, my knowledge of military matters is poor, but hopefully its improving slowly.

What is clear, I cannot make any reliable assumptions based on the clasps he was awarded, or the clasps that he was not awarded.

Thanks once again

Dave

[sphinx]

Dave,

I have the following Territorial Efficiency Medal which may be of interest for your records.

3516716  Pte.  Herbert  NADIN
9th(TF) Bn.  Manchester Regiment.

B. Dukinfield 1899, a stoker. Pre war member of ‘B’ Coy.  Part of  Bn. Sanitary Squad.
WW1 service as 859 and & Royal Defence Corps 80826.  Egypt 26.9.1914.  Re- joined 12.7.1921 – 11.7.1929.  TEM Feb. 1923.  Wife Annie, kids Dorothy May.

regards

[sphinx]

Dave,

Further to your QSA clasp entilement for the Regiment.

I own Manchester Regiment QSA's with 16 different QSA clasp combinations to the 1st Bn, 8 for the second, 1 for the 4th, 3 for the 5th, 1 for the 6th and 10 for the Volunteer Service Companies.
Total = 39, and I haven't got them all!

regards

[Dave Naden]

I have the following Territorial Efficiency Medal which may be of interest for your records.

3516716  Pte.  Herbert  NADIN
9th(TF) Bn.  Manchester Regiment.

B. Dukinfield 1899, a stoker. Pre war member of ‘B’ Coy.  Part of  Bn. Sanitary Squad.
WW1 service as 859 and & Royal Defence Corps 80826.  Egypt 26.9.1914.  Re- joined 12.7.1921 – 11.7.1929.  TEM Feb. 1923.  Wife Annie, kids Dorothy May.

Hi,

Thanks for the information. I guess you are a avid medal collector who probably does not want to part with the medal. But if you do want to sell it sometime in the future, please remember me.

I've just looked at his Medal Index Card. He was awarded the 1915 Star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. I wonder where they are?

Regards

Dave

[Dave Naden]

Theres a manchester grammar school register,it names all known staff and pupils,and it gives biographical details,manchester library have copies,ime sure you can get it on the inter library exchange thingy.

Mack,

I've found the following books on ABEBooks, please could you let me know if one of them is the book you are thinking of...

• The Manchester Grammar School 1515-1915 by Alfred A. Mumford, published 1919.
• The Manchester Grammar School 1515-1965 by James A. Graham and B. A. Phythian, published 1965.
• Dare to be Wise, a History of Manchester Grammar School by James Bentley, published 1990.

If not, please could you let me know the exact title of the book, as I suspect I may have trouble finding a copy.

Thanks in anticipation

Dave

[sphinx]

The Manchester Grammar School Book of Remembrance.  1922

[Dave Naden]

The Manchester Grammar School Book of Remembrance.  1922

Thanks once again

Dave