PLEASE HELP! Trying to trace a sargeant major/rsm?James Palmer-Modified-again

[kammy]

PLEASE HELP!
I am trying in vain to find out any information regarding my grandfather. As my father is now in his 70's and his father died also James Herbert Palmer (possibly James Leanard Palmer or just James Palmer)when he was 6 he comes from a generation of silence and knows very little of his history.  We do know that JP ( born 2nd May 1886 in Birmingham )and was the seventh of 11 children. He was stationed in the manchester regiment at Curragh and married a local girl,(1911?) he then returned from the great war and moved to Manchester where he married a Dorothy Mayo and had 10 children.  We know he was a great athlete as we have pictures of him doing the 'Weathercock''- a difficult manoevre.  Stories have it that he lied about his age to serve as drummer boy in the Crimean War, eventually became an RSM and there were stories of him being mentioned in dispatches- he definitely had the Military Medal and Bar - and others which sadly are now lost. His army numbers are 6786 and 3512622. His enrollment papers reference is 41876f, but dont know what to do with these numbers. Also there is a photo of him performing 'the weathercock' but on the reproduction of the photo they have inserted the date 1896, which we have ascertained is wrong as he would have been 10years old.(pretty young for a sergeant-major)
Can anyone help me as I really am getting desperate to find out ANY information.
regards
Kammy

[Wendi]

Hi kammy and a Warm Welcome to our Forum 

Please can you elaborate upon what avenues you have tried so far, in vain ?

Is the photo you have ?

http://www.armynavyairforce.co.uk/other_photographs.htm

this man was born before 1889 

A search of TNA shows 6 James Palmers who went overseas with The Manchesters in WW1 and the highest rank shown is Corporal 

Have you got any other info that might help us?

Wendi 

[tonyrod]

hi kammy ,and welcome to  the house of fun after searching for john h Palmer and coming up with nothing and posting,    wendi  kindly let me know it was  James h palmer, well i  found these on the medal cards                  can you post your fathers d o b and  what number birth he was out of the10. regards tony

Medal card of  Palmer, James A
Corps: Manchester Regiment
Regiment No: 4056
Rank: Private
 1914-1920 WO 372/15 

Medal card of  Palmer, James
Corps: Manchester Regiment
Regiment No: 19854
Rank: Private...
 1914-1920 WO 372/15 



Medal card of  Palmer, James
Corps: Manchester Regiment
Regiment No: 6786
Rank: Corporal
 1914-1920 WO 372/15

Medal card of  Palmer, James
Corps: Manchester Regiment
Regiment No: 42267
Rank: Private
 
one other in regiment a james arthur  palmer 202062

[slob]

Hi,
I think I've managed to track down the children.
James Herbert was born Q2 1935 Stockport.
The youngest,Marie, was born Q2 1942 Stockport.

I can't find any death that matches the father's name in this time frame.
The best I can find is James H Palmer age 71 died 1940,
and Herbert Palmer age 63 died 1946 Stockport.
I can't find a birth for a James Henry in the area,there are  a few down South.

I think we need confirmation of the name and year of death, a birth or marriage certificate would be good for a start, for one of the children.

Dave

[mack]

if james herbert palmer was born in 1889,then he cant be the sgt.major palmer in the picture,because its dated 1896,he would have only been 7yrs old.

mack

[tonyrod]

 

ALL BORN MANCHESTER ON LANCASHIRE BMD

Palmer  Philip  SEPT 1928  MOTHER Mayo 
Palmer  Roy    MARCH 1932 MOTHER Mayo

PALMER Winifred  SEPT 1933  MOTHER  Mayo

[slob]

Here is a more complete list of births.
I can't find a marriage, so I checked on the use of both surnames, and knowing there were 10 children found these (11)
Some appear as Mayo, some appear as Palmer, some appear with both names.
All have mother's maiden name as Mayo.
Jun 1924 Mary M P    Mayo   Chorlton       Mayo 
Sep 1926 Leonard J P Mayo   Manchester S.  Mayo   
Jun 1930 Walter E    Mayo   Manchester S.  Mayo
Sep 1928 Philip      Palmer Manchester S   Mayo   
Sep 1928 Philip      Mayo   Manchester S.  Mayo 
Mar 1932 Roy         Palmer Manchester S.  Mayo 
Mar 1932 Roy         Mayo   Manchester S.  Mayo
Sep 1933 Winifred    Palmer Manchester S.  Mayo
Sep 1933 Winifred    Mayo   Manchester S.  Mayo 
Jun 1935 James H     Palmer Stockport      Mayo
Jun 1935 James H     Mayo   Stockport      Mayo
Jun 1936 Dorothy     Mayo   Stockport      Mayo
Mar 1939 John        Palmer Stockport        Mayo 
Dec 1940 Sheila      Palmer Stockport        Mayo 
Jun 1942 Marie J     Palmer Stockport        Mayo

Dave

[Gaille]

Hi,

Doing an update for Kammy with some additional information found in Rootschat.

james Palmer  - Name is James Leonard Palmer
b Birmingham enlisted 12 july 1901 age on recruitment 15 years 2mths
Dob: 02.05.1891

James Plamer
Manchester regiment
no 6786 (crossed through)
no 3512622 (think he became a sergeant)

age on enlistment 15 years 2 mths at 12 july 1901
Occ Tiler  (or Filer?)
height 4ft 11/2 inches
Chest 28 inch -expanded 30 inch
fresh complexion hazel eyes brown hair
Roman Catholic

Hope this helps.

Gaille

[kammy]

Hi,
I think I've managed to track down the children.
James Herbert was born Q2 1935 Stockport.
The youngest,Marie, was born Q2 1942 Stockport.

I can't find any death that matches the father's name in this time frame.
The best I can find is James H Palmer age 71 died 1940,
and Herbert Palmer age 63 died 1946 Stockport.
I can't find a birth for a James Henry in the area,there are  a few down South.

I think we need confirmation of the name and year of death, a birth or marriage certificate would be good for a start, for one of the children.

Dave

[kammy]

if james herbert palmer was born in 1889,then he cant be the sgt.major palmer in the picture,because its dated 1896,he would have only been 7yrs old.

mack

Dear Mack,

Sorry for the delay in getting back. I have just worked out how to modify my post again, as there is a discrepancy with the photo of him doing 'the weathercock'. On the original newspaper article there is no date, but on the reproduction picture it has the date 1896. We now know his DOB as 1886 so that would make 10, which would be a world record for a Sergeant-Major. Please feel free to refer to my modified post for other details if you so should wish.

Kind regards,

Kammy

[kammy]

Dear All,

Sorry to all of you for not replying sooner, I am a bit of an idjut when it comes to working stuff out on the computer. It took me two years to learn how to send an email. Anyway, I have modified my post to include some more details (my husband did it really), so I'll leave it with you (anyone who may be able to help).

Many thanks kind regards,

Kammy

[mack]

Hi,

Doing an update for Kammy with some additional information found in Rootschat.

james Palmer  - Name is James Leonard Palmer
b Birmingham enlisted 12 july 1901 age on recruitment 15 years 2mths
Dob: 02.05.1891

James Plamer
Manchester regiment
no 6786 (crossed through)
no 3512622 (think he became a sergeant)

age on enlistment 15 years 2 mths at 12 july 1901
Occ Tiler  (or Filer?)
height 4ft 11/2 inches
Chest 28 inch -expanded 30 inch
fresh complexion hazel eyes brown hair
Roman Catholic

Hope this helps.

Gaille

if this is kammys grandfather.
then you need to apply to kentigern house,scotland,they should have his service records,he didnt leave the army,till 11th july 1922 on completion of engagement

good luck.

mack

[Wendi]

Kammy I hope this is your Grandfather !

He was not a very big man was he ~ that may account for his agility as a gymnast.   

You need to apply here for his service record, you can download the forms from this website

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html

it costs £30 and you do need his death certificate, which leads me to a much more important point...........

You should get your fathers birth certificate, from that, obtain both his parents marriage certificate, which will have both their fathers names on it and work your way back by SOLID research. 

The WWW is a wonderful way to find out some  things, but these should always be backed up by FACT

Much luck !!!

Wendi 

[kammy]

Hi,

Doing an update for Kammy with some additional information found in Rootschat.

james Palmer  - Name is James Leonard Palmer
b Birmingham enlisted 12 july 1901 age on recruitment 15 years 2mths
Dob: 02.05.1891

James Plamer
Manchester regiment
no 6786 (crossed through)
no 3512622 (think he became a sergeant)

age on enlistment 15 years 2 mths at 12 july 1901
Occ Tiler  (or Filer?)
height 4ft 11/2 inches
Chest 28 inch -expanded 30 inch
fresh complexion hazel eyes brown hair
Roman Catholic

Hope this helps.

Gaille

if this is kammys grandfather.
then you need to apply to kentigern house,scotland,they should have his service records,he didnt leave the army,till 11th july 1922 on completion of engagement

good luck.

mack

Mack thank you for your help - just got in and got some more info so I'll take your advice and apply to Kentigern House  ....Kammy

[kammy]

Kammy I hope this is your Grandfather !

He was not a very big man was he ~ that may account for his agility as a gymnast.   

You need to apply here for his service record, you can download the forms from this website

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html

it costs £30 and you do need his death certificate, which leads me to a much more important point...........

You should get your fathers birth certificate, from that, obtain both his parents marriage certificate, which will have both their fathers names on it and work your way back by SOLID research. 

The WWW is a wonderful way to find out some  things, but these should always be backed up by FACT

Much luck !!!

Wendi 

my dad apparently only has his short birth cert as that was all that was necessary for his marriage, but  my mum is checking now, however thankyou for the pointer will try and pursue that...
kammy