44510 A. CPL. Stanley.Gilbert .Gordon. VINCE - MANC.R

[1954gladiator]

Hi Barney

From 2 posts by mack above you will see that my grandad Stanley was attached to the 20th Bn. on 9th July 1916 & in the field on 25th October 1916.  It would have been great to think that our grandfathers could have met on the 29th August (near Delville Wood) but from the dates this could not have happened.  I am sorry your grandfather was killed in action on that day. 

Thanks for all your thoughts/contributions. 

[1954gladiator]

Hi mack

Thanks for the 2 posts.    I now know that my grandad Stanley was not at the Battle of Fricourt on 1st July 1916 - from his arrival at etapleas on 29th June 1916 & his attachment to the 20th Bn. on 7th July 1916 we must assume he was a reinforcement to the Bn. following their battle losses at Fricourt? 

When he was in the field on 25th October 1916 can you briefly tell me what Somme battles he would have fought in?  What Italian  battles were the Bn. involved in 1917?  So I can know about them & try & find out where he might have fought before he was invalided out?

Your knowledge is fantastic so can you post details of his actual service record or where I can access it please?  In particular do you know when he became A-CPL in the 20th Bn?

[mack]

Hi mack

Thanks for the 2 posts.    I now know that my grandad Stanley was not at the Battle of Fricourt on 1st July 1916 - from his arrival at etapleas on 29th June 1916 & his attachment to the 20th Bn. on 7th July 1916 we must assume he was a reinforcement to the Bn. following their battle losses at Fricourt? 

When he was in the field on 25th October 1916 can you briefly tell me what Somme battles he would have fought in?  What Italian  battles were the Bn. involved in 1917?  So I can know about them & try & find out where he might have fought before he was invalided out?

Your knowledge is fantastic so can you post details of his actual service record or where I can access it please?  In particular do you know when he became A-CPL in the 20th Bn?

ime not too clued up on the battlefield side of things,BUT some of the gang are,they should be along soon.
with regards to his service record,drop monsstar a PM,hes the top lad on our forum at kew.

mack

[1954gladiator]

Hi themonsstar

Please see the last post by mack. Can you advise my grandads service record or where to find it?  Also the Somme battles & the Italy battles he fought in?

I'm within touching distance of knowing his full story now - unless something unexpected comes up!!!!

What a fantastic Forum I must say - I wonder if other Regiments are fortunate in having one so good?   
 

[mack]

Hi themonsstar

Please see the last post by mack. Can you advise my grandads service record or where to find it?  Also the Somme battles & the Italy battles he fought in?

I'm within touching distance of knowing his full story now - unless something unexpected comes up!!!!

What a fantastic Forum I must say - I wonder if other Regiments are fortunate in having one so good?   
 

that comment,is the nicest one i have heard about our forum.

thank you
mack

[1954gladiator]

A last post!

A visit to the National Archives at Kew yesterday confirmed all the information so far discovered about my grandad & his WW1 service posted on this forum.  I was fortunate to find his actual War Service Record on microfilm & take a copy.  Although starting his service overseas in October 1916 in the 20th Bn. he actually finished his service in November 1918 in the 22nd Bn.

He was appointed (unpaid) as A.CPL in April 1918 & then in July 1918 he was appointed (paid).  Very generous of those in power!

I also was able to access the War Diaries for both the Manchester Regiment 20th & 22nd Bn.s for the 2 years that cover my grandads service in both & they gave a fascinating insight to his theatre of war.

Have decided to frame my grandads pictures as a Royal Fusilier & a Manchester (together with his cap badges for both Regiments & 4 medals) to pass to my son & my grandsons in due course.  This was following a visit to the Library & Manchester Regiment Museum in Ashton.  Anyone researching as I have done will find these places of real interest too. 

A final thanks to all at the forum who have helped me 
 

[tisgrannie]

Thank you much for this journey. It was very thoughtful of you to add the conclusion. Its fabulous to see the "whole thing". You have much to pass to your descendents. I am sure they will greatly appreciate the time and effort you have put in. I am sure you have enjoyed the experience. I myself, through the fabulous people on here "Found" my Granddad. It was so fulfilling a feeling   I can't find words to describe it.
I got involved with the site as I felt so comfortable over here! They are such a dedicated bunch of folks and so generous with their time and effort.
Well done
Best wishes
tisgrannie

[1954gladiator]

Hi tisgrannie

Anyone reading this forum story might like to take the advice of Devil Wood which was to read Michael Steadmans book 'The Manchester Pals' as it ties in with the 20th & 22nd Bn. War Diaries.  Having borrowed a Library copy I shall now buy one as it gives vivid accounts of what Manchester soldiers went through in WW1 on the Somme.  I am very proud that my grandfather served for over 2 years in the field because I have also found out that he was actually born with a valve heart defect.  Because of this he was finally invallided out but what courage to volunteer & then fight carrying such a disability!

In Stanleys story I made reference to him being a Tailor in Saville Row (why he enlisted firstly as a Royal Fusilier - City of London Regiment).  From his War Service Record he did indeed work in Saville Row, in Pooles a Tailors Shop, but as a Clerk.  I have also found out that after the War he did not get a War Disability Pension presumably because he was found work on his return to England (to the Suffolk Regiment Depot in Bury St Edmunds) near his family home.  Henry Poole the Tailors still exists so I am in contact with them to see if he went back to work for them.  They were advised by telegram of his disability & it is highly possible they took him back as he went on to qualify as a Chartered Accountant before owning/running the Monks Eleigh Post Office with my grandmother.  Henry Poole & Co. was was started by James Poole in 1806 & by the sound of it they have comprehensive records & great history.  I look forward to more info on my grandad to share with all here if relevant!

I am glad the forum helped you so much with your grandfathers story. 

[mack]

A last post!

A visit to the National Archives at Kew yesterday confirmed all the information so far discovered about my grandad & his WW1 service posted on this forum.  I was fortunate to find his actual War Service Record on microfilm & take a copy.  Although starting his service overseas in October 1916 in the 20th Bn. he actually finished his service in November 1918 in the 22nd Bn.

He was appointed (unpaid) as A.CPL in April 1918 & then in July 1918 he was appointed (paid).  Very generous of those in power!

I also was able to access the War Diaries for both the Manchester Regiment 20th & 22nd Bn.s for the 2 years that cover my grandads service in both & they gave a fascinating insight to his theatre of war.

Have decided to frame my grandads pictures as a Royal Fusilier & a Manchester (together with his cap badges for both Regiments & 4 medals) to pass to my son & my grandsons in due course.  This was following a visit to the Library & Manchester Regiment Museum in Ashton.  Anyone researching as I have done will find these places of real interest too. 

A final thanks to all at the forum who have helped me 
 

you really really sound like you enjoyed yourself ime glad his records survived,that alone,was worth your trip to kew.

mack

[1954gladiator]

More about Stanley - from Angus Cundy of Henry Poole & Co. Saville Row Tailors from 1806 till the present day! 

Note Stanleys payrise in 1919 after his return to work for them.  What a way to double your pay - going overseas to fight for King & Country at the Somme for a couple of years!!  This is why he didn't qualify for a War Pension after WW1 although invallided out.  He was fit enough to resume work in some capacity with his old employer (hence no record of Stanley on Ancestry).  Have asked Angus what Stanley did in his 2 jobs with Pooles & also if they have any images of him for you all to see.  Will post if a reply etc. is received.

Dear Clive,
 
Thank you for your fascinating email concerning Stanley Gilbert Gordon Vince. I have found entries in two employee register books as follows.
 
1893 Book
Stanley G Vince. 43 Cumberland Road, Acton W. Clerk-Packing room. Came 3-2-1913, left for duration of War.
 
1887 Book
Stanley Gilbert Gordon Vince.
3rd February 1913, paid £45-16-0 per year.
16th March 1914, paid £52-0-0 per year.
17th February 1919, paid £107-4-0 per year.
 
On return from Army Service and placed in Counting House. Resigned end March 1919 due to domestic reasons. 10/3/1919, 2 weeks wages + bonus in lieu of notice. 5/11/1919 enquiry of Ministry of Labour as he is applying for a temporary post as sorter in Post Office. 1/6/1920 answered enquires of Reud-Cyril Hudson who requires a care taker for St Mary Abbotts Mission Hall.
 
I found your enquiry of a great coincidence as I am semi retired and live 2 miles from Monks Eleigh. Though difference premise and now also the Village store, the post office is still there.
 
Kind regards,
 
Angus Cundey

[1954gladiator]

More correspondence fron Angus Cundy about Stanleys accountabilities whilst working for H. Poole & Co. Saville Row Tailors - both before & after his WW1 service.

Dear Clive,
 
Whilst in the Packing room, your grandfather would have booked out the garments for delivery or post. In the Counting House he would bill the customers, write up the ledgers and pay the staff.
 
The next time I go to St. Peters, Monks Eleigh I shall look out for the Vince family memorials.
 
Kind regards, Angus

I think Stanley's WW1 story is now complete so this may well definitely be a 'last post'.  Thanks to all of you who have contributed so much 

Clive Mabbutt

[harribobs]

a very good thread to boot! 

[1954gladiator]

For those who helped me uncover my Grandad Stanleys story as firstly a Royal Fusilier & finally a Manchester in the 20th & 22nd Bn's.

3 pages of his War Service Record (the most relevant) of 10 held at the NA at Kew! 

[1954gladiator]

Stanley's 'Theatre of War' whilst at the Somme in the 20th & 22nd Bn's. 

[1954gladiator]

Now he will always be remembered!  His story is complete thanks to this forum!!