III Platoon 17th Battalion

[Tim Bell]

Sgt. Chandler was promoted to A Company CSM and went to France early as part of a Special Brigade.  He was then Commissioned to Royal Engineers and awarded MC.

I don't know protocols here, but links I'd like to copy in a new thread would be http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=547&st=400#entry1873488,http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=547&st=400#entry1873789and http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=547&st=400#entry1878252

It would be great to see a transcript of the interview that Andrew Chandler (Gt. Grandson) has.

Tim

[mack]

sgt chandlers records cant add anything to your research,he left the 17th batt before they went overseas.

mack

[Tim Bell]

Mack,

I understand your point, because Frank Chandler went to France on 20/9/15, soon after the 17th went to Larkhill.  He had spent time on Salisbury Plain.

I was trying to find out what happened to III Platoon men and we now have a more complete picture.  More importantly Frank's interview provides some new anecdotes about enlistment and Heaton Park.  Andrew hasn't managed to join the forum - blocked or something.  Is this something that you can help with?  

Incidentally, Frank always apparently considered himself a Manchesters man - even as a Lieutenant in RE.  That tells us something of the pride amongst the City Pals.

I'll post some extracts from Andrew's transcription.  Is there a prospect of holding these complete personal accounts in one part of the forum?  I fear they may get lost in the main 1914-18 threads.  I have some bits and pieces I'd like to add too.

Tim

[mack]

hiya tim.
andrew will need to drop chris or wendi a PM,they will sort a membership out for him

you can add material to the research section and then pin it

mack

[mack]

pte 8726 percy murch was one of the pals who was transferred to the 30th divisions army cyclist company,he went to france on 8-11-1915,he became sgt 9114 percy murch
percy lived with his uncle at 17 muriel st,lower broughton,i think his mother[henrietta] was unmarried,he worked as a drapery salesman in manchester and after the war he became the caretaker at the northern assurance building on cross st manchester.
he transferred to the army reserve on 3-5-1919
married jessie,maud gregory in 1921
born 26-6-1887
died at stepping hill hospital on 17-12-1961 aged 74
he was living at westmount,rowarth,new mills

mack

[mack]

pte 8473 arthur collier
enlisted 3-9-14
aged 23
occupation warehouseman
resided 5 january st chorlton on medlock
parents james+martha
went to france on 22-7-16
wounded in right hand 1917,sent to 2nd southern gen hospital bristol
wounded again on 14-8-18.sent to 3rd scottish gen hospital

mack

[Tim Bell]

Thanks mack,

As an original member of the 17th, I wonder if Arthur Collier stayed behind in November 1915 to form part of the Training Reserve for the next batch of recruits.  Albert Hurst had been given this option; but declined.

Tim
yes he did go to the 25th reserve battalion.

mack

[Tim Bell]

Thanks again Mack,

Percy Murch's MIC shows he also served as Sgt. with Royal Scots Fusiliers.  It seems a bit strange he didn't go back to the Pals when he returned to the Infantry without his bike.  We just wonder if this was before; or after July 1916.  I'll try some extra searches for Percy in the 2nd RSF.

Tim

[mack]

Thanks again Mack,

Percy Murch's MIC shows he also served as Sgt. with Royal Scots Fusiliers.  It seems a bit strange he didn't go back to the Pals when he returned to the Infantry without his bike.  We just wonder if this was before; or after July 1916.  I'll try some extra searches for Percy in the 2nd RSF.

Tim

he wouldnt have had any choice about where he was sent,and theres also the fact that he was a sgt at the time,they may not have had any room on the 17th batts establishment for him

mack

[Tim Bell]

If a man had survived intact and transferred to 13th Battalion with the remains of the 17th Bttn. in May 1918 would they have been issued a new number for 13th?  Would their MIC show this?

There are four III Pln men identified from the Medal Rolls to have subsequently transferred to 13th Bttn with two later serving with 9th Bttn.  All 4 retained their original 17th Bttn Number.

9163 George Lancaster had been wounded at some stage, likely prior.  I'd be interested to know if anyone has information on Samuel Lucas, 8823 Thomas Roscoe & 8284 Robert Schofield.

These men are part of a select band who were probably with the 17th Bttn  in 11/1915 and still with their original comrades 3 years later at the Armistice.  Their final transfers also suggests they are less likely to have been wounded  - as most men seemed to have returned to the front with a different Regiment/Bttn.  Has anyone done any previous research on Pals serving with the same people from there original Service Bttn throughout?

Cheers

Tim

[mack]

non of the men were still serving with the 17th battalion at the armistice because it was absorbed by the 13th batt on 30th july 1918 and the 13th batt was absorbed into the 9th batt two weeks later.

mack

[Tim Bell]

I appreciate your point and have slightly edited my post.  The question remains as to the extent that original Pals may have served continually with each other through hostilities.  I have identified these 3 men that may have had continual service, but suspect 1 or more was probably wounded during the War.  Just wondered if anyone had posed the same question before.

T

[mack]

the following three soldiers were the only three left on the 16th manchesters nominal roll in june 1919.

CQMS 6694 Arthur james tyldesley,he served right through the war without being wounded or sick,7258 harry Shannon had the same record,the third man 7269 john jones was shot in the face on 1st july 1916 and spent over a year with the RWF on his recovery,he then transferred back to the 16th manchesters in 1918,oddly enough with his original 16th manchesters service number.

after the armistice,CQMS tyldesley[rheumatism] and L/Cpl Shannon[myalgia] both suffered from ailments brought on by their war service.

CQMS tyldesley was awarded the MSM for his service with the 16th manchesters and it was a well deserved award,he began as the 90th brigades despatch rider,appointed L/Cpl 15-4-15[demoted 26-11-15 misconduct]re-appointed L/Cpl 9-7-16,promoted Cpl 31-7-16,appointed L/sgt 9-3-17,promoted sgt 16-3-17,appointed orderly room sgt 25-3-17,promoted colour sgt 29-4-18 and finally CQMS 8-5-18,how he managed to go unscathed is a miracle,apart from his appointments as despatch rider and orderly room sgt,all his other appointments and ranks would have had him in the thick of things,despite his rheumatism,CQMS tyldesley lived to the ripe old age of 82,he died on 6th December 1965,at the time,he lived at 23 danebank rd,lymme,cheshire.
he is the great uncle of our lady administrator wendi
born 29-7-1883,son of james and Penelope of weaste,salford.
he wasn't demobilised until 9-7-1919.

mack

[Tim Bell]

That's some story.
The 3 men from III Pln were transferred to Reserve Class Z in March, April & May 1919 - so they wouldn't have been on equivalent strength in June 1919.  Following your men from 16th Bttn it seems everyone had some form of 'condition' arising from Service.
Tim