L/Cpl F.W.Langridge & Pte W.Gregory 1/9th & 2/9th Lost at Sea

[Wendi]

Cheers tony ! 

now that's 2 internet references for Frederick    Earlier I said Maritime Museum    I actually meant Naval Museum http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/research_info.htm sorry !

Wendi 

[Frederick]

OK.  Norman's daughter lives in Portsmouth.  I'll get her on it!  Any details of Norman's record? 
I've got to say: I'm really impressed with this forum!

[Wendi]

Thank you for your kind words !

Norman's daughter could apply for his service record if she wishes.  All the info she needs to apply for it with is here http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html and she'll need a copy of his death cert.

Wendi 

[tonyrod]

 a little update , no joy  with a crew list so no chance of finding the five crew members  on the tower hill memorial, with out going through the lot  and using just the  date, sorry i don't have the time,
the MV CAPABLE  was on a return trip from ALDERNEY,  her cargo stone, 1/4 of the male population was in the stone industry on ALDERNEY,
Around 1,400 people lived in Alderney in 1940. Once France fell to the Germans,
given the choice between evacuating and remaining, almost the entire population elected
to leave after a mass meeting at Les Butes.
They were taken to Weymouth, England on Sunday, June 23.

British steamer CAPABLE was sunk on a mine near Horsesand Fort, Spithead.
The entire crew of five men and two Territorial guards were all lost on the steamer.
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1302-p-2.html

[tonyrod]

 i just had to find one,    could anyone  take a photo of PANAL 23, ON TOWER HILL MEMORIEL to find the rest of the crew
BLOOM, CHARLES
Initials: C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Chief Engineer
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy
Unit Text: M.V. Capable (London)
Age: 46
Date of Death: 05/06/1940
Additional information: Husband of F. Bloom, of Horsham, Sussex.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 23.
Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

[tonyrod]

i have just gone through the tower hill memoriel  and i have only found one more,
SULLIVAN, JOHN DENNIS
Initials: J D
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Master
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy
Unit Text: S.S. Capable (London)
Age: 58
Date of Death: 05/06/1940
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 23.
Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

[Wendi]

tony you are remarkable !!

I'm sure Frederick will appreciate all this, perhaps we should think about consolidating all this info, it seems a pity that MV Capable is remembered from Plymouth to Dunkirk and Tower Hill and not where she lays 

Wendi 

[Frederick]

Indeed I do appreciate it.  As I say: I am impressed.

[tonyrod]

       
hi wendi, i have posted on one of my naval sites for any info on the mv capable, and maybe get a better picture, she was carrying stone from alderney,   1/4 of the male population worked in the stone industry
on alderney, at the end of june1940 all the islanders were moved off,
i think she his classed as a war grave,


     

[themonsstar]

This is from LLoyd's War Losses WW2 Vol 1.

5th June 1940.

Ship. Capable
Flag. Brit
Tons Gross.216
Voyage. Alderney for Portsmouth
Cargo. Stone
Position. 131 degs, Horse Sand Fort 2.8miles
How. Mine
Personnel. Crew 5 & 2 Soldiers T.F. All lost
Remarks.
Permission given for dispersal of wreck in 50,42,44 N-10,55 W. Charted position of wreck is 80 degs, St Heren's Fort Light, 2.72 Miles.

[tonyrod]

found the cook, http://www.memorials.inportsmouth.co.uk/war-graves/milton/e-g.htm

OSCAR FABIAN FREDRICKSON,  son of carl & caring fredrickson and husband to may everline fredrickson
he his buired  and photo of grave on the site, so the other two could have been found also and buried,

[Frederick]

I'm making quite a bit of progress with this now.  It turns out that two of the crew lived in Great Yarmouth - one of the ports visited whilst the two Manchesters lads were aboard.  I haven't been able to identify them yet, but I'm working on it.

[Frederick]

The men are list as civilians on the CWG memorial.  There could be a good reason for this:

http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=D.E.M.S.:_Defensively_Equipped_Merchant_Ships

From it's earliest beginnings in February 1940 to the official formation as the Maritime Royal Artillery, MRA, in February 1941, eventually some six regiments, 24 port detachments would number over 14,000 men including 170 officers. 26,000 DEMS gunners (i.e. Royal Navy/Marines) were to serve during WW2, of whom 2,713 would lose their lives. 841 naval gallantry awards were made. This includes MRA, who received naval not army medals. There were also occasions when the RAF Regiment manned the guns, on troopships transporting RAF personnel and importantly it should not be forgotten that over 150,000 Merchant Navy seamen were also trained and active members of this gallant group. DEMS/MRA gun crews served on over 7,000 vessels during the course of the war. All members of the armed forces that served aboard DEMS were required to sign on as members of the crew, as Merchant seamen and were therefore under control of the ship's master. More often than not the senior rank in the military personnel that made up the gun crews would be an N.C.O. Usually the ship's Second Mate was designated as the Gunnery Officer and would have undergone a gunnery training course at one of the training centres at major ports around the country. Somewhat confusingly, it now seems usual to use the term DEMS to cover all such personnel.

****It was a necessity for such military personnel to sign on as "Deck-hands" allowing them, under international law, to visit neutral countries without being interred.**** The need for civilian clothing for such occasions meant that a disproportionate amount of kit was needed as crews would not know the destination of their vessels prior to embarkation. Another result of this was that they qualified for payment of an extra sixpence (2p) per day for a Royal Navy gunner, on top of his 14 shillings a week as an Able-bodied seaman (having successfully passed the weapons training, promotion from ordinary seaman was automatic). The Maritime Royal Artillery gunners however had an increase of one shilling (5p) per month. In 1941 the Merchant Navy paid able-bodied seamen ten pound, twelve shillings and sixpence per month plus a war bonus of ten pounds per month.

[Wendi]

Nice work Frederick !

Makes interesting reading, and would make a lot of sense, during that time !!!

Wendi 

[Frederick]

I now have the names of all the crew from CWGC:

PORTSMOUTH (MILTON) CEMETERY, Hampshire, United Kingdom

FREDRICKSON, Cook, OSCAR FABIAN, M.V. Capable (London)., Merchant Navy. 5 June 1940. Age 63. Son of Carl and Caring Fredrickson; husband of May Eveline Fredrickson, of Plymouth. Grave Ref. Plot Y. Row 15. Grave 31.


TOWER HILL MEMORIAL, London, United Kingdom

BLOOM, Chief Engineer, CHARLES, M.V. Capable (London), Merchant Navy. 5 June 1940. Age 46. Husband of F. Bloom, of Horsham, Sussex. Panel 23.

HAYWARD, Mate, HERBERT CHARLES FREDERICK, M.V. Capable (London), Merchant Navy. 5 June 1940. Age 35. Son of Robert and Violet Hayward; husband of Eva Hayward, of Caister-on-Sea, Norfolk. Panel 23.

PORTER, Second Engineer Officer, ROBERT, M.V. Capable (London), Merchant Navy. 5 June 1940. Age 25. Panel 23.

SULLIVAN, Master, JOHN DENNIS, M.V. Capable (London), Merchant Navy. 5 June 1940. Age 58. Panel 23.