Author Topic: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900  (Read 28104 times)

Offline harribobs

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Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2008, 11:03:48 PM »
Dave have you accounted for Walter A Nadin a one month old male born Salford living 157, Eccles New Road, Salford on 1881 Census RG11/3977 Folio 77 Page 5 ? 
Mind you the only birth that ties up with him is Walter Cranstone Nadin  ::)
I can not find the parents on later census, but they were both Irish and father John was a Sergeant on the Army in 1871   ;D
Call me an old romantic  ;) but one of Walter's brothers has a first child in the Qtr. to June 1900 and calls him Walter Redvers Nadin   8)

You beat me too it. I've not had time to look through the Census returns which I've got in Notebooks and not on computer. Thanks for your contribution. I will look into it.

There were a few Naden/Nadin's in Ireland. It would explain why I can't find a GRO Birth Registration. Madden and Maden are surnames that also occur in Ireland. I've encountered a few cases where one surname has been confused with the other.

The other thought I had is that after W. A. was born, his father died, his mother re-married to a Nadin, and subsequently W. A. adopted the surname of his step-father, which often happened. But your suggestion looks the favourite.

Thanks

Offline Wendi

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2008, 10:51:58 AM »
Your welcome Dave, I know you'll sort it out eventually  ;)

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Boer/BoerWarBullerRedvers.html

Thanks Chris !  I had come across the name Redvers before and wondered where it came from.  Ties in nicely with Walter Redvers Nadin  ;D and strangely enough Buller Barracks in Aldershot was my Pa's home Barracks.

Wendi  :)
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Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2008, 01:30:04 PM »
... I had come across the name Redvers before and wondered where it came from.  Ties in nicely with Walter Redvers Nadin and strangely enough Buller Barracks in Aldershot was my Pa's home Barracks.

Wendi,

I've had a look at the census, and found the family in the 1881 census at 157 Eccles New Rd, Salford, Lancashire, England
John Nadin, 37, born Ireland, Professor Of Gymnastics
Jessie Nadin, 22, born Ireland, Wife
Sydney B. Nadin, 8, born Winchester, Scholar
Robert W. Nadin, 5, born Ireland, Scholar
John C. Nadin, 2, born Ireland
Walter A. Nadin, 1m, born Salford
Annie Thomas, 18, born Hulme, Lancashire, Domestic Servant

I've not found any of the family in the 1891 census, but Ancestry, my source is full of errors. The family may have been living in either Blackpool or Manchester at the time because...

1901 census, Moss Side, Manchester, Lancashire, England
John Nadin, 60, born Ireland, Gymnastic Instructor
Essie Nadin, 41, born Ireland
Vera, Nadin, 18, born Salford, Milliners Apprentice
Charlotte Nadin, 16, born Manchester, Florist
Thomas Nadin, 13, born Manchester
Frank Nadin, 12, born Manchester
Arthur Nadin, 11, born Blackpool
Lillie Nadin, 9, born Manchester
Ernest Nadin, 8, born Blackpool
Terence Nadin, 7, born Blackpool
Ella Nadin, 4, born Blackpool
Nora Nadin, 2 born Blackpool
Stanley Nadin, 6m, born Manchester

15 children!

I think his brother Robert was living in Birkenhead as a Ship Stewart, and Sydney was married, living with his wife and son Walter in West Derby near Liverpool, a Mersey Seaman in 1901, suggesting the family may have lived in Liverpool for a short time. I have not found the third brother John C. Nadin. Also...

Extract: GRO Index, Births, Apr 1900 to Jun 1900
Surname,          Forename(s),             District
Nadin,            Walter Redvers,          W. Derby

As you have suggested, Sydney probably named his first son, Walter Redvers Nadin to honour his brother who may have died only a few days earlier. Walter Redvers Nadin died in 1960 in Liverpool (again).

I've not found John, Walter A. Nadin's father in the 1871 census. Please could you post details.

Thanks

Offline Wendi

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2008, 01:56:16 PM »
Hi Dave !

Papa John's 1871 Census details can be found on RG10/1685 Folio 50 Page 21

John Nadin aged 30 born Ireland, Sergeant at The Camp, Colchester

The Gymnastics connection interests me greatly, as my GreatGrandfather was also a Gymnastics Instructor for the Manchester Militia at the turn of the Century.

It could be possible that John Nadin was trained in the Army, in which case, although too late to be one of the "twelve apostles" the Museum in Aldershot may have info on him.  See

http://www.rushmoor.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=205

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2008, 02:20:23 PM »
The Gymnastics connection interests me greatly, as my GreatGrandfather was also a Gymnastics Instructor for the Manchester Militia at the turn of the Century.

It could be possible that John Nadin was trained in the Army, in which case, although too late to be one of the "twelve apostles" the Museum in Aldershot may have info on him.

Wendi,

That's really interesting. They must have known one another.

I've sent an e-mail to the museum asking them to confirm whether or not John was one of the twelve apostles. Was your Great Grandfather also one of the twelve?

Thanks, I'm really am in debt to you.

Offline Wendi

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2008, 08:02:15 PM »
I've sent an e-mail to the museum asking them to confirm whether or not John was one of the twelve apostles. Was your Great Grandfather also one of the twelve?

Hi Dave, I enjoy it !!!

Neither of them would have been apostles, as they were circa 1860 but I know the Museum has records of some of the trainees who went thro' their courses.

My GGrandfather "Sergeant Instructor of Gymnastics" had 10 children who survived infancy, 2 of whom went on to be famous early professional footballers, later one became a manager and the other chairman of League Clubs. 

I wonder if any of the Nadin children followed a sporting life ?

Wendi  :)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 08:04:09 PM by Wendi »
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2008, 11:40:30 AM »
Neither of them would have been apostles, as they were circa 1860 but I know the Museum has records of some of the trainees who went thro' their courses.
My GGrandfather "Sergeant Instructor of Gymnastics" had 10 children who survived infancy, 2 of whom went on to be famous early professional footballers, later one became a manager and the other chairman of League Clubs. 
I wonder if any of the Nadin children followed a sporting life ?

Wendi,

You are right, I should have realised John Nadin would have been in his "teens" in 1860.

As far as I am aware, there have been no professional footballers or sportsmen in the family. There have been a few "Sunday League" footballers and even a referee. There have been many soldiers, churchmen, miners, farmers, a few doctors and dentists etc.

You may have heard of Joseph Nadin, deputy constable of Manchester. As such, he ran the Manchester police force. When instructed by the magistrates, it was his job to arrest the speakers on the platform in St. Peter's field in 1819. The Peterloo Massacre followed, a terrible day in the history of Manchester.

I've got one more question. Are there any other "local" Boer War Memorials in parks etc. in the Manchester or Salford areas?

Thanks once again.

Offline harribobs

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2008, 02:33:38 PM »
I've got one more question. Are there any other "local" Boer War Memorials in parks etc. in the Manchester or Salford areas?

Thanks once again.

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/museumsgalleries/mom/memorials
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Offline Robert Bonner

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2008, 02:46:00 PM »
You have already exhausted all the public Manchester Regiment memorials but there are two very fine identical Lancashire Fusilier memorials.  One is in Bury and the other in Salford opposite the old infirmary. Well worth looking at.
Robert

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2008, 04:48:21 PM »
I've sent an e-mail to the museum asking them to confirm whether or not John was one of the twelve apostles. Was your Great Grandfather also one of the twelve?

Neither of them would have been apostles, as they were circa 1860 but I know the Museum has records of some of the trainees who went thro' their courses.

I've had a reply from the APTC Museum...

Quote
John Nadin was not one of the 12 apostles of the APTC but I have checked the archives and found a Pte Nadin who qualified as a Gymnastic and Fencing Instructor on 6th May 1869.  He is listed as 64 Company Royal Marines.  The notes alongside his name read 'Qualified at Woolwich.  Temporary Asst Instructor at Chatham in 1874.  Ceased to do duty 16.7.1878.'  There is an additional small note that reads 'Resumed his duties at Chatham 4.10.1878'.
 
Also a Corporal Naiden (Royal Marines) is listed as qualifying as an Assistant Instructor at Woolwich in 1867.  The notes read 'Temporary Asst Instructor at Chatham in 1874-75'.  This must be the same man.

So it was definitely in the Royal Marines where he gained his skills. I doubt if he was ever an officially accredited professor though as he claimed to be in the 1881 census!

Regards

Offline Wendi

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2008, 08:53:59 AM »
Great News Dave  ;D A Marine, I guess his papers would be at Kew  :D

I've not found any of the family in the 1891 census, but Ancestry, my source is full of errors.

I've found them in the 1891 Census for you, still in Moss Side with a couple more kids  :D

Ancestry have transcribed Papa as John G Nordin (actually the scan of the page is rubbish) but he describes himself as Chief Instructor Manchester ( ??? I would be interested to see what you think the other words are ) RG12/3202 Folio 87 Page 14 ~ Wifes name this time is Margaret  ::)

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2008, 11:09:20 AM »
Great News, Dave. A Marine, I guess his papers would be at Kew.
I've found them in the 1891 Census for you, still in Moss Side with a couple more kids.
Ancestry have transcribed Papa as John G Nordin (actually the scan of the page is rubbish) but he describes himself as Chief Instructor Manchester. I would be interested to see what you think the other words are. RG12/3202 Folio 87 Page 14 ~ Wifes name this time is Margaret.

Thanks Wendi. I'm not only in your debt, but I'm seriously heading for bankruptcy!

Yes, some of John Nadin's papers may be held at Kew, and the APTC definitely hold some records for John. It's always a problem getting to these places though, but I would like to see the records myself someday.

I've ignored got the Norden/Nordin surname in all my census research, as it is a known separate surname to Naden/Nadin/Neden/Nedin. But I do note other grammatically and phonetically similar surnames such as Noden and Neighden. I usually access Ancestry (free of charge) at Leeds Central Library, so it will be a few days before I can check the 1891 census entry. The spouse's name, Margaret seems to be a bit odd though. It could be a mistake, or maybe he has moved "the other woman" in!  I assume his children are present including Walter A. Nadin.

Thanks again.

Offline Wendi

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2008, 11:31:41 AM »
Thanks Wendi. I'm not only in your debt, but I'm seriously heading for bankruptcy!
  ;D ;D ;D

Sorry I assumed you would have more instant access to the census, so here goes & I'll also email you copies of the pages, 'cos I'd love to see what you make of his profession  :D

John G Nadin    47 born Ireland
Margaret E Nadin 31 born Ireland
Elizabeth A Nadin 16 born Aldershot
John C Nadin 12 born Ireland
Walter A Nadin 10 born Salford
Vera Nadin 8 born Salford
Charlotte Nadin 6 born Rusholme
Thomas Nadin    3 born Rusholme
Frank Nadin 2 born Rusholme
Arthur Nadin 1 Blackpool Poalton Le Tylde
Annie Nadin 23 Niece born Ireland

Charlotte Nadin birth registered in Salford 1885 under the surname NADIN & Walter is there, so I am reasonably happy with that and John's profession make it the right family.

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2008, 12:51:14 PM »
John G Nadin    47 born Ireland
Margaret E Nadin 31 born Ireland
Elizabeth A Nadin 16 born Aldershot
John C Nadin 12 born Ireland
Walter A Nadin 10 born Salford
Vera Nadin 8 born Salford
Charlotte Nadin 6 born Rusholme
Thomas Nadin    3 born Rusholme
Frank Nadin 2 born Rusholme
Arthur Nadin 1 Blackpool Poalton Le Tylde
Annie Nadin 23 Niece born Ireland

Charlotte Nadin birth registered in Salford 1885 under the surname NADIN & Walter is there, so I am reasonably happy with that and John's profession make it the right family.

I'm happy. I think you are right. And to me, it's very interesting.

For the benefit of other readers, what follows is all genealogy.

Thanks for the census images. John's profession is Chief Instructor Manchester Grammar School Gymnasium. Poor kids, how they must have suffered at the hand of an ex-Royal Marine instructor!

The age of Margaret E. Nadin is consistent, so it is probably her real name. The second initial E is probably Essie, easily mistaken as Jessie.

Sydney, aged 18 and Robert, aged 15 must have left home. As there are now 16 children, it's a good job, for there must have been no room for them all!  But somehow, they had room for a visitor, Annie their niece. Annie's presence suggests there was still Nadin's living in Ireland in 1891. I can find no reference for Sydney and Robert in the 1891 census. I guess they may have been "at sea" or visiting relatives in Ireland.

Elizabeth A. Nadin is new. Again, I can't find her in the 1881 census. Given that she was only 6, she must have staying with relatives at that time, possibly in Ireland. By 1901 she would have been 26 and probably married. I have no record or her marriage in England or Wales, and have no record of her in the 1901 census.

Arthur was born at Poulton-le-Fylde, near Blackpool.

That's excellent. I'm definitely a bankrupt!

Thanks