Author Topic: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900  (Read 26524 times)

Dave Naden

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5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« on: August 09, 2008, 10:51:25 PM »
Hi,

I have been researching W. Nadin (no relation) for some time now, and I'm hoping somebody may have further information regarding this casualty. This is what I already know...

DEATH REGISTRATION:

1. General Register Office (UK), GRO Register of Deaths Overseas (St. Catherine's) Index, Microfiche F0537"Extract: GRO Overseas Index, Natal and South African Forces Deaths, 1899 to 1902
Surname,          Forename(s),             Regiment,                          Page
Nadin,            W.,                      1 Manchester Regt.,                0084."

- i.e. the regiment, "1 Manchester Regt." which appears in the GRO Deaths Index entry refers to the 1st Battalion, the Manchester Regiment, the 63rd (West Suffolk) Regiment of Foot. W. Nadin died during the Second South African Boer War, 1899-1902.

DEATH:

2. Contact(s), Internet E-mail.
"Contact Name: Brian Kaighin
E-mail Address: kaigs(AT)telkomsa.net ~ replacing the (AT) with @
WWW Address: http://www.ladysmithhistory.com
Area of Expertise: Researcher, Second South African Boer War, 1899-1902
Date(s): May 2007, May 2008

In response to a request for information regarding the death, the grave and memorial(s) for W. Nadin, 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment, Brian replied:

5222 Private W. Nadin, 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment died of enteric fever in Ladysmith on 8/6/1900 and is buried in an unmarked grave in the town cemetery. His name appears on the main memorial there.

Contact Name: Gilbert Peter Torlage
E-mail Address: torlageg(AT)pmho.kzntl.gov.za ~ replacing the (AT) with @
WWW Address: none known
Area of Expertise: Author, Researcher and Tour Guide, Second South African Boer War, 1899-1902
Date(s): August 2006

In response to a request for further information (in addition to that supplied by Brian Kaighin) regarding the death, the grave and memorial(s) for W. Naden, 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment, Gilbert replied:

W. Nadin, 1st Manchesters. I cannot really add anything to, other than to say according to a hand written record I have he was killed and did not die of enteric fever. However there was no military activity near Ladysmith at that time so your cause of death is probably the correct one.

I don't know the Ladysmith Cemetry well at all, and therefore do not know Nadin's grave."

- i.e. W. Nadin probably died of disease.

Has anybody any information regarding the graves of the 1st Manchester casualties? Could W. Nadin be buried in a mass grave?

I believe there may be several memorials to Boer War casualties in South Africa, both regimental and British Army. Please could anybody identify these SA memorials which may bear his name? Photographs would be ideal, but I guess I'm hoping for far too much.

Secondly, could anybody let me know what memorials exist in the UK which may bear his name. For example, I believe there is a Manchester Regiment Boer War Memorial in Albert Square, Manchester. Are there any others?

Any information regarding his first name or his age, place of birth etc. would be very welcome. This would help me to trace his family.

Where are the Manchester Regiment archives kept? Are they accessible?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in Anticipation
« Last Edit: August 10, 2008, 10:28:03 AM by Wendi »

ladysmith

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2008, 06:52:55 PM »
Dave - The casualty roll shows him as died of enteric fever (typhoid) 8/6/1900. This is confirmed in 'In Memoriam' which adds that he died at Ladysmith General Hospital and is buried at Ladysmith Town Cemetery but his grave is unmarked. His religion is shown as C of E. Men such as him weren't buried in mass graves. They would have been buried individually, normally (eventually) with a metal cross bearing their name. During decades of neglect and vandalism many of these crosses all over South Africa were 'lost', stolen or damaged beyond repair. Consequently, your man's grave is not only unmarked but its exact location in the cemetery is also unknown.

His name will no doubt be on the cemetery memorial and quite possibly also on the regimental memorial on Caesar's Camp outside Ladysmith. Ladysmith was relieved on 28/2/1900 and the war moved on so it's true that there was no action around Ladysmith by June 1900. He served through the siege as the battalion medal roll shows him entitled to a Queen's South Africa Medal with the clasp Defence of Ladysmith. He is also shown as 'dead' on the roll.

The regimental memorial is in St. Ann's Square, Manchester. The regimental archives are at the Tameside Local Studies and Archives Centre in Ashton-under-Lyne and they are accessible. Here is a link: http://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives/manchesterregiment/boerwar

I've visited Ladysmith, Ladysmith Cemetery and Caesar's Camp several times and have a lot of photos stashed away somewhere. I'll dig them out and look through them when I get the time and opportunity. If you can bear with me I'll get back to if I find anything with his name on.

David




Offline harribobs

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2008, 07:24:38 PM »
the memorial in St Annes Square

“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2008, 06:39:21 PM »
Dave - The casualty roll shows him as died of enteric fever (typhoid) 8/6/1900. This is confirmed in 'In Memoriam' which adds that he died at Ladysmith General Hospital and is buried at Ladysmith Town Cemetery but his grave is unmarked. His religion is shown as C of E. Men such as him weren't buried in mass graves. They would have been buried individually, normally (eventually) with a metal cross bearing their name. During decades of neglect and vandalism many of these crosses all over South Africa were 'lost', stolen or damaged beyond repair. Consequently, your man's grave is not only unmarked but its exact location in the cemetery is also unknown.

His name will no doubt be on the cemetery memorial and quite possibly also on the regimental memorial on Caesar's Camp outside Ladysmith. Ladysmith was relieved on 28/2/1900 and the war moved on so it's true that there was no action around Ladysmith by June 1900. He served through the siege as the battalion medal roll shows him entitled to a Queen's South Africa Medal with the clasp Defence of Ladysmith. He is also shown as 'dead' on the roll.

The regimental memorial is in St. Ann's Square, Manchester. The regimental archives are at the Tameside Local Studies and Archives Centre in Ashton-under-Lyne and they are accessible. Here is a link: http://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives/manchesterregiment/boerwar

I've visited Ladysmith, Ladysmith Cemetery and Caesar's Camp several times and have a lot of photos stashed away somewhere. I'll dig them out and look through them when I get the time and opportunity. If you can bear with me I'll get back to if I find anything with his name on.

David

David, thanks for your reply. I've now know more about W. Nadin, thanks once again.

You quote a source, 'In Memoriam'. What is this?, Is it a book or a regimental magazine?

Given the price of steel and other metals these days, there have been several War Memorial plaques stolen recently in the UK. I guess all parts of the world are suffering the same problem today, or in the past. It's a pity that some people are so disrespectful.

Thanks for the web site. A link led me to a list of Manchester Regiment War Memorials. It appears his name can probably be found on memorials at...

UK, Manchester Cathedral
UK, Manchester, St. Anne's Square

SA, Caesar's Camp, near Ladysmith
SA, Ladysmith Cemetery memorial
SA, Ladysmith Church
SA, Ladysmith memorial in town centre

Less likely, his name may also appear on...

UK, Manchester University Barracks
UK, Wigan, Mesnes Park

SA, Pretoria memorial in cemetery

I would welcome your opinion whether or not his name appears on the above memorials (other than those already mentioned).

Please could you let me know how far away is Caesar's Camp from Ladysmith?

Any photographs would be very welcome, even if you find them months from today.

There are two other Naden/Nadin's (KRRC and Nothumberland Fusiliers) who died during the Boer War. If I post information for these casualties which I have collected so far, do you think you would be able add anything?

Thanks in Anticipation

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2008, 06:50:17 PM »
the memorial in St Annes Square

Thanks for the photo.

I must try to visit this memorial myself one day soon.

Offline Wendi

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2008, 10:27:21 PM »
I must try to visit this memorial myself one day soon.
Let us know if you plan a visit Dave  ;D

What part of the world do you think the surnames you are researching come from ?

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2008, 10:47:09 PM »
What part of the world do you think the surnames you are researching come from ?

Thanks for your interest.

Well it's a long story. The surname probably originates from the Naden Valley near Rochdale, Lancashire going back 800 years before surnames was adopted. The family settled in two centres, north of Manchester and south of Buxton, Derbyshire, 1500 to the present day. During the industrial revolution, the family moved off the land into the towns, and settled in virtually every major town/city surrounding the Peak District, plus London. In more recent time, there are at least a dozen in every county in England. Many emigrated to Australia (some were convicts), Belgium (a WW1 soldier), Canada and the USA (from 1800, possibly earlier). Known surname variants are Naden/Nadin/Neden/Nedin.

If you want to know more or have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Offline Wendi

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2008, 10:54:27 PM »
Thanks Dave !

No further queries at this time !  I'm just the family history person around here, and can't say I have come across the name.  I was wondering if the SA connection continued.  I guess then, St. Annes Square is within striking distance !

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline Robert Bonner

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2008, 10:35:17 AM »
Caesar's Camp was the weakest and therefore one of the most crucial points in the defence ring around Ladysmith.  It is within a good mornings walk from the town, with a fairly exhausting climb to the top.

Pte Nadin is probably shown on the memorial in Ladysmith and on Caesars Camp.  Also on the Regimental memorial in St Ann's Square and the cathedral.  Unfortunatly the brass memorial in the cathedral is positioned high above the main entrance and is virtually impossible to read.

The Wigan memorial in Mesnes Park was destroyed by vandals many years ago and only the granite base remains. However there is a movement at the present time to rebuild. But this was purely for the Wigan Volunteer Battalion.  The two memorials in University Barracks are also in respect of the volunteers from the 2nd & 4th Volunteer Battalions - no connection with Pte Nadin.
Robert

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2008, 03:26:14 PM »
Caesar's Camp was the weakest and therefore one of the most crucial points in the defence ring around Ladysmith.  It is within a good mornings walk from the town, with a fairly exhausting climb to the top.

Pte Nadin is probably shown on the memorial in Ladysmith and on Caesars Camp.  Also on the Regimental memorial in St Ann's Square and the cathedral.  Unfortunatly the brass memorial in the cathedral is positioned high above the main entrance and is virtually impossible to read.

The Wigan memorial in Mesnes Park was destroyed by vandals many years ago and only the granite base remains. However there is a movement at the present time to rebuild. But this was purely for the Wigan Volunteer Battalion.  The two memorials in University Barracks are also in respect of the volunteers from the 2nd & 4th Volunteer Battalions - no connection with Pte Nadin.

Robert,

Thanks for your reply, in particular the local knowledge of Caesar's Camp.

I suspected W. Nadin would not appear on the Manchester University and Wigan Memorials. I also suspect his name will not appear on the SA Pretoria (Cemetery) Memorial either, although confirmation would be most welcome.

Thanks again

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2008, 03:54:10 PM »
Thanks Dave !

No further queries at this time !  I'm just the family history person around here, and can't say I have come across the name.  I was wondering if the SA connection continued.  I guess then, St. Annes Square is within striking distance !

Wendi  :)

Wendi,

I should have added the majority of the family still live in the north, mainly in the counties of Cheshire, Derbyshire, Lancashire, Staffordshire and South Yorkshire.

As far as I'm aware, no Naden/Nadin/Neden/Nedins are living in SA (although my own cousin lived there for a couple of years in the 1960's). 3 Naden/Nadin's lost their lives during the Boer War.

One notable survivor was Frank Naden (no relation). On the WW1 Forum (not Manchester Regt.), the question was asked, what was the greatest number of British decorations awarded to a single serviceman (Level 3 or higher)?

The reply was a list of 59 names, R.A.F. and R.F.C. 44, Army 10, Royal Navy and Marines 5. Amongst the 10 army names was Naden, Frank, Lt. Col., D.S.O. with 2 bars and  M.C. with 1 bar. He began his military career during the Boer War when he was a Sergeant, and rose through the ranks during WW1. I din't think it was possible for a working class lad to do so well, but somehow, he did. It's nice to know that as well as a few bad ones in the family, we also have a few good ones as well.

Regards



Offline Wendi

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2008, 04:36:35 PM »
Thanks for the additional info Dave !  It's lovely to see someone so enthusastic about their research  ;D

Frank was indeed not only good!, but amazingly brave by the look of it, and won the highest price of all, I would think.........he survived.

Getting back to "W. Nadin" I thought this was sad:

Unfortunatly the brass memorial in the cathedral is positioned high above the main entrance and is virtually impossible to read.

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline harribobs

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2008, 09:09:05 PM »
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Dave Naden

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2008, 10:42:26 PM »
st anne's square...

Thanks for the photogragh.

What is interesting, is that his name appears with a second inital, i.e. W. A. Nadin.

Thanks again

Added...

I can find no birth of a W. A. Nadin registered in England and Wales (and I've built a database of over 40,000 births, marriages and deaths). The only match I can find is...

Extract: GRO Index, Births, Jul 1861 to Sep 1861
Surname,          Forename(s),             District
Neden,            William Arthur,          Manchester

Neden is a known variant of the Naden/Nadin surname. In fact, it appears frequently in Ashton-under-Lyne and areas closer to Manchester such as Denton, Gorton etc.

But I have also found...

Extract: GRO Index, Deaths, Oct 1862 to Dec 1862
Surname,          Forename(s),             District
Neden,            William Arthur,          Manchester

Ignoring the registration of death, if William Arthur Neden is the same man as W. A. Nadin, he died aged 39, and possibly made the army his career.

I would welcome any comments.

Thanks in anticipation
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 11:52:31 PM by Dave Naden »

Offline Wendi

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Re: 5222 Private W. Nadin, died 8 June 1900
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2008, 12:31:28 PM »
I've built a database of over 40,000 births, marriages and deaths).

Dave have you accounted for Walter A Nadin a one month old male born Salford living 157, Eccles New Road, Salford on 1881 Census RG11/3977 Folio 77 Page 5 ? 

Mind you the only birth that ties up with him is Walter Cranstone Nadin  ::)

I can not find the parents on later census, but they were both Irish and father John was a Sergeant on the Army in 1871   ;D

Call me an old romantic  ;) but one of Walter's brothers has a first child in the Qtr. to June 1900 and calls him Walter Redvers Nadin   8)

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha