9th Manchester Volunteers service record help

[quovandius]

My great grandfather John Bertenshaw enlisted into the Manchester Regiment in January 1915. His army service record seems unavailable but his airmans record (he joined the RFC in 1917 no 108975) mentions previous service in the 9th Manchester Volunteers. Am I right in thinking this is pre ww1 and if so, are there any records available?

By June 1915 he was posted to France with the Loyal North Lancs (no 22007) possibly 1st battalion as they received a draft from the Manchester regt around then. His pension record has a random service no. (23401) Amongst his other numbers so I'm assuming that is his army number when in the Manchesters as he didn't join any other regiments during his service. From looking online this looks like possibly he was in the 11th, 12th, 13th or 14th service battalion.

Any help appreciated
Mark

[quovandius]

See scans

[quovandius]

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[Tim Bell]

 Hi Quo,
Welcome to the Forum.  You're our first new member for quite a while - we had a problem with hacking.

I think the reference to 9th Volunteer Bn refers to pre-War service.  9th (Territorial) Bn was based in Ashton (near John's home in Denton) and was previously 3rd Volunteer Bn until 1908. 

If John went overseas with the Loyals on 29/06/1915, it is pressing logic that he had enlisted with them on 20/01/1915.  Transfers in the infantry were common in 1916 onwards but less so in 1914/15.

Cheers
Tim

[quovandius]

Many thanks for your reply Tim. Thanks for confirming what I already thinking about John's pre war service in the Manchesters.

In regards to his WW1 service, if he did originally enlist in the Loyals and not the Manchesters, there is still the question of the random 23401 no. On his pension card. The photo we have of him I think shows a Manchesters cap badge and the "utility" service dress which was issued late 1914 onwards from what I've seen but I'm happy to be corrected on this as WW2 is more my area of expertise and maybe it is a prewar photo? Not disagreeing with your input but just trying to make sense of everything!

Cheers

[Tim Bell]

Hi Quo,

I take your point. The men in the photo are quite old too and I doubt John could've looked this old before 1914.  I just wonder if he had home service with the Manchesters after the Loyals and before the RFC.  The 23xxx sequence were issued in mid 1916, so it's possible he was wounded / sick in France, posted home an then transferred to a service Bn.  The other older men in the image would fit with Derby Scheme recruits in mid 1916.  Guess work, maybe.
Tim