Author Topic: Private Frank Burton 23475 12th bn  (Read 549 times)

Offline Leonc

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Private Frank Burton 23475 12th bn
« on: August 20, 2023, 03:35:54 PM »
Hello
Can anyone help with some information on my great uncle Frank Burton, he is buried at the hooge crater cemetery.

He died on 3/12/1915 according to the headstone.

Does anyone have info on the war records for that day ? Or information on how he died ?

Private Frank Burton 23475
« Last Edit: August 20, 2023, 05:36:39 PM by Leonc »

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Private Frank Burton 23475 12th bn
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2023, 11:02:14 AM »
Frank was serving in Kitchener’s 12th (Service) Bn which had landed in France in July 1915.  The Bn took over trenches in Grid Square I24, south of Hooge in Flanders on 1 December.  On the next day “The enemy’s artillery was very active bombarding our supports.”
On 3 December, “Enemy Artillery again very active to which our Artillery replied.  Trenches in a very bad condition.  Wet day.”
Frank was killed in the field, probably by a German shell.  He was buried further north (Grid I28), in the field adjacent to Hooge Crater Cemetery, where he was reburied in @ 1920.  4 other members of 12th Bn died on the same day and have no known grave. As Frank has a grave it's possible he had been carried back to Hooge on a stretcher and died before receiving treatment.
Frank’s mother, Mary Ann Burton, received a pension and a War Gratuity of £3 – indicating he had only served a short period.
Frank was born in Putney in 1897 and appears to have been an inmate at the Styal Cottage’s (Workhouse) School in 1911.
Quotes from War Diary. Free to download. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352944
June 1917 Trench Map attached credit NLS.  The position of the trench line will have been different in 1915.
Welcome to the Forum.
Tim
« Last Edit: August 21, 2023, 03:40:06 PM by Tim Bell »
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Offline Leonc

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Re: Private Frank Burton 23475 12th bn
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2023, 09:50:59 AM »
Thank you Tim

That’s very helpful, I did read the war records but couldn’t find where trench I24 was so the map is very helpful. I’m guessing the trenches in I24 were at hill 62.

How did you find out about him being in a workhouse ? We did wonder why he was in the Manchester regiment when he was from London. But the workhouse was in Manchester so that answers a question.

Did you find some info from the robert bonner book ? I was going to get it but it’s tricky to find a copy.


Offline charlie

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Re: Private Frank Burton 23475 12th bn
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2023, 05:30:25 PM »
The Robert Bonner book is only a reprint of a typescript history of the battalion originally written by Ted Thompstone and Percy Hibbert shortly after the war. The only additions are a Roll of Honour and a list of awards. The history itself is really only a condensed version of the War Diary and does not contain anything which is not in the War Diary.
Charlie

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Private Frank Burton 23475 12th bn
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2023, 09:24:34 AM »
Thank you Tim

That’s very helpful, I did read the war records but couldn’t find where trench I24 was so the map is very helpful. I’m guessing the trenches in I24 were at hill 62.

How did you find out about him being in a workhouse ? We did wonder why he was in the Manchester regiment when he was from London. But the workhouse was in Manchester so that answers a question.

Did you find some info from the robert bonner book ? I was going to get it but it’s tricky to find a copy.



Hi Leon,

Trench Maps for 1915 are generally elusive, so I can't really guide you on the specific location of the trenches held by 12th Bn.  Sometimes you might find more detail in the Brigade War Diary or other units in 52 Bgd or 17th Northern Div.

I'm not certain Frank is the chap in the Workhouse. The year (he was under age) and place of birth correspond and I think there may be a London Workhouse record for 1900.  Strangely his siblings were with his mother in London in 1911 - sort  of contradicting the idea Frank was in Cheshire, although I can't find him elsewhere.

I don't have Robert's book and note Charlie's comments.

If you have Ancestry it would be worth having a look at other records for men with similar service numbers.  This may lead to a better idea of an enlistment date.

Cheers

Tim
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Offline charlie

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Re: Private Frank Burton 23475 12th bn
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2023, 09:59:25 AM »
The battalion history sums up the period 30th November - 5th December in one sentence
„On the 30th the Battalion moved into the Hooge trenches remaining there until 5th December“

Charlie