17387 Sergeant Frank Ingle DCM

[Alan Riches]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post, so forgive me if I don't get it quite right!

I'm researching a gentleman called Frank Ingle who won the DCM on 1 July 1916 whilst serving with the 20th Manchesters.  I have access to Ancestry, so using all their records I have been able to construct an outline of Frank's life story, in particular his service in the Great War.  However, there are three areas I'm struggling with, and I wonder if any kind soul on this Forum can help?

1.  The citation for Frank's DCM reads as follows: "For conspicuous gallantry.  He attacked single-handed an enemy machine gunner, killed him and captured the gun which was causing many casualties."  Quite specific, but I have not been able to find any further details about this action.  It is not mentioned in the Battalion or Brigade war diary, or in Stedman's history of the Manchester Pals.  Can anyone shed any more light on this?  Frank was from Ancoats; perhaps a local newspaper might have carried a report?

2.  Frank was wounded near Ginchy on 26 August 1916 and appears to have been evacuated to the UK for treatment.  After recovering from his wounds, he went on to serve with the 24th Battalion, then the 20th Battalion again, and finally the 22nd Battalion.  But I have no dates for these postings, and I was wondering if there was any way of finding out when, and for how long, he was with each battalion.

3.  Frank is listed as wounded in the War Office Weekly Casualty List dated 23 December 1918.  I'm assuming he was serving with the 22nd Battalion at the time and was thus wounded in Italy.  But again I have not been able to substantiate this with any further evidence.  Are there any experts on the 22nd Battalion and/or the Italian Campaign who can help?

Finally, does anyone have a picture of Frank Ingle?  It would be great to put a face to his name!

Thank you very much for your help.

Alan                             

[Tim Bell]

Hi Alan,
Your post is fine, although I will move the thread to 1914-18 now you've introduced yourself. Welcome to the Forum.
1. The Late Robert Bonner concurred with the DCM relating to events on 01/07/1916.  I think you have covered the potential sources.  There are some newpaper articles about the award but strangley nothing in the Manchester papers.
2. FMP has the casualty record as being wounded in the buttock.  Without further records it's specualtion and guess work to establish how long and when he served with subsequent Bns.
3. 22nd Bn War Diary would be the only place I can think of to establish when the group listed in the Casualty List were wounded.
I realise this isn't much help.  You have already been very thorough.
Frank is somewhere in the V Platoon photo from 1915.  He was still with B Coy, when wounded on the Somme. https://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=4719.0
Cheers
Tim

[Alan Riches]

Hi Tim,

Thank you very much for your reply.  Just a couple of questions, if I may:

1.  Who is Robert Bonner?  And you mention there are newspaper articles about Frank Ingle's DCM - do they shed more light on the circumstances of his award?

2.  What is FMP?

Regards,

Alan

[Timberman]

 Welcome to the forum Alan.
 We are a bit thin on the ground these days of admin and moderators
 that may be able to help you.
 With regards to who Robert Bonner was click on the lick, it will explain
 what a great lose he was to the forum, museum and his knowledge of the Manchester's.

  https://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=11572.msg74056#msg74056

 FMP is find my past.

 This the link to your original post on the GWF from 2011 there may be something there that can help us.

 https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/173382-17387-private-frank-ingle-dcm-20th-manchester-regiment-5th-city-
 pals/#comment-1684422



 Timberman

[Alan Riches]

Thanks, Timberman - much appreciated.

[Tim Bell]

The references to the DCM do not add anything to the LG entry.
I don't know all the details of 20th Bn exploits on 1 July. The machine gun that Frank disabled may have been causing problems to the other Bns in the Brigade, so it would be worth looking at their War Diaries to see if there is a reference to these circumstances.
For example, further up the line, 16th Bn disabled a machine gun that was holding up progress for 2 Divisions and this is cross referenced in the records.
Confirming Timberman's tribute to Capt Robert Bonner.  He was a great figure for the Regiment.
Jon Porter has recently published a History of this part of the line.  I have the previous volume for Montauban and it is biblical in detail.  The new volume may have an explanation for you.  If you buy it, Jon would probably be happy to check his notes too.
Tim

[Alan Riches]

Hello again Tim,

Gosh, you're up early on a Saturday morning!

Yes, I have a copy of Jon Porter's book on XV Corps operations between Mametz and Fricourt on 1 July 1916.  Like his book about Montauban, it is superbly researched and written and gives a blow-by-blow account of the 20th Manchesters' attack.  Jon references Frank Ingle's exploits at the end of his account, but unfortunately in no more detail than his DCM citation.  However, you have given me a possible lead.  Jon has obviously had access to German accounts of the day's fighting, and I wonder if any of them mention the capture of one of their machine guns?  I'd like to contact Jon to ask him; do you happen to have his contact details?

Thanks again,

Alan       

[Tim Bell]

Try http://www.zerohourzday.com/contact.php

[Alan Riches]

Thanks, Tim, I'll let you know how I get on.

[charlie]

Alan
I translated the relevant chapter of the history of the German Reserve Infanterie Regiment 111 which opposed the 20th Bn on 1st July. You can read it here http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=9311.0
Charlie

[Alan Riches]

Thanks, Charlie, this is just the kind of thing I was looking for.  I hadn't even considered the German perspective - it will certainly add context and colour to Frank Ingle's story.

Best wishes,

Alan