Author Topic: 3525525 Pte H Hill  (Read 1184 times)

Offline Bob.NB

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3525525 Pte H Hill
« on: May 05, 2023, 04:58:21 PM »
I'm having a look at some of my WWII medal groups as it has become obvious to me that some groups are figments of people's imagination (some are genuine mistakes but others with a view to deceive).
I have a "group" to 3525526 Pte H Hill which comprises GSM clasp "PALESTINE", 1939-45 Star, Pacific Star and War Medal 1939-45. The award of the GSM is verified on the medal roll.
The medals are mounted for wear on a bar but they all look a bit too neat and with new ribbons.
The "group" gives the impression of someone who was in Singapore in 1940/41 but if so, it should have a Defence Medal.
I have studied the Manchester Regiment roll for Singapore and Thailand etc and can find no mention of Pte Hill, and have searched online but without any luck.
It may be that he was in Singapore and was one of the lucky few who were reposted before the Japanese invasion, but I feel that this is grasping at straws.
I can't apply for his papers from the MoD because as I know so little about him, I cannot get a death certificate.
Has anyone got any information on Pte H Hill?
Any help most gratefully received as always.
Many thanks and best wishes.
Bob
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:39:52 PM by Bob.NB »

Offline rafboy

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2023, 10:42:44 AM »
I agree re the medals Bob, I cannot find anything on him in all the information I have. I'm sure between Mack and myself we found all the 1st Bn Japanese POW's including many who transferred to other Regiments/Corps.
His service number is only 153 before my fathers so he possibly did go from Palestine/Egypt to Singapore, he may have been time expired before the Japanese invaded, he would have joined in 1932.

I will ask a couple of my contacts and let you know the results.

Have you checked on Ancestry, it's free to use this weekend.

Cliff
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:40:23 PM by Bob.NB »
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2023, 12:23:16 PM »
Cliff,
Many thanks.
I've checked Ancestry, CWGC and FindMyPast, both without success.
Even if he was time-expired, would he not have been recalled from the Reserve?
Assuming the group I have is "made up" he probably got something for WWII?
Thanks again and best wishes.
Bob
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:40:39 PM by Bob.NB »

Offline rafboy

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Re: 3525526 Pte H Hill
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2023, 01:45:07 PM »
No answers as yet Bob.
I have checked on the copies of the nominal rolls for HQ and A companies for those travelling on the Dilwara from Suez to Singapore, he is not on those.
I don't have the Diwara rolls for the other companies.
My father went with the advance party his name is crossed out on the HQ company roll, there are several crossed out on both the above rolls so I guess they were also in the advance party.
I still hope for some sort of answer from contacts.
   
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline rafboy

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2023, 04:18:23 PM »
Bob, is this 3525526 Pte H Hill on the rim of the GSM and the medal roll as I have been sent the attached.
Cliff
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:41:09 PM by Bob.NB »
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2023, 05:07:36 PM »
Cliff,
Apologies, H Hill's number is 3525526 - my eye sight must be getting worse, sorry!
Best wishes.
Bob
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:41:32 PM by Bob.NB »

Offline rafboy

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2023, 06:20:49 PM »
Bob, now you have confused me (Easily done).

That is the number (3525526) you have put all along. Is it the one on the rim of the GSM together with the name Pte H Hill because the attachment I just posted has that service number with the name Pte F Johnson Manchester Regiment, its the National Archive record with the archive reference WO100/504 for a Palestine GSM.

Cliff
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:42:02 PM by Bob.NB »
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2023, 09:35:33 AM »
Cliff,
Please accept my apologies - H Hill's number on his GSM is "3525525".
I'm having chemo at the moment and seem to get confused but that really is no excuse for misreading a number twice.
Apologies once again and thanks for your help.
Best wishes.
Bob
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:43:05 PM by Bob.NB »

Offline rafboy

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2023, 10:13:01 AM »
No need to apologise Bob, I do it frequently, just take life easy.
I will see what comes back with the correct number for you.
Cliff
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:43:55 PM by Bob.NB »
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline rafboy

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2023, 11:37:47 AM »
No luck I'm sorry Bob, one suggestion came back to try contacting the Medals Office and ask which medals were issued to this man. I'm told they are very helpful but not sure if you are not a relative. I think you may get an answer if you explain your concerns. It's possible the War Medal was never issued.
MOD Medal Office, Room G36, Innsworth House, Imjin Barracks, Gloucester, GL3 1HW.
Or look at:  https://support.britishlegion.org.uk/app/answers/detail/a_id/553/~/applying-for-medals#:~:text=Address%3A%20MOD%20Medal%20Office%2C%20Room,Barracks%2C%20Gloucester%2C%20GL3%201HW.

There is no indication at all that Hill was in Singapore, as said before he is not on the Dilwara's passenger list for HQ and A Companies going from Suez to Singapore in 1938. Can you find the passenger lists for the other companies?
It's possible he was time expired in Palestine and returned to UK then re joined and served in the Pacific possibly with the 2nd Bn in Burma if so I would have expected the Pacific Star Medal to have the Burma Clasp on it. It looks like 3535526 Pte F Johnson  was the same situation, no sign of him being in Singapore either. This could indicate they were both time ex in Palestine.
There is a slight possibility that Hill was in Singapore and was either injured and shipped home, escaped before surrender or was time expired in Singapore, if he was there to be awarded the Pacific Star he would have to have been there between 8th December 1941 and 15th February 1942, I doubt if he was time expired during this period he would have returned to UK.
I'll keep searching, best of luck.
Cliff     
 
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:43:27 PM by Bob.NB »
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2023, 10:15:54 AM »
Cliff,
That really is very kind of you - I'll keep looking myself and investigate the Mod Medal Office.
Thanks again for all your time spent on this and apologies again for leading you up the garden path with the wrong number.
Best wishes.
Bob
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:44:23 PM by Bob.NB »

Offline rafboy

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Re: 3525525 Pte H Hill
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2023, 11:54:56 AM »
I enjoy helping Bob, there isn't much that I can help with on the Forum but when I can I enjoy doing so. I may not know much but sometimes I know A person that can.  :)

I have been in touch with Roy, he has sent me the Manchester's Medal Roll for the Palestine GSM page 19 (Attached I hope) it has both Hill and Johnson on it.
I have checked everyone on that page, most have Service Numbers quite close together. I cannot find any who were in Singapore which to me gives a very high probability that they were all time expired or returned to UK from Palestine/Egypt for some other reason.
I also checked CWGC and the Forum only one from that list came up 3525437 Pte John Thomas Hayward who was executed by the Germans at la paradise whilst with the 2nd Bn. (Information from a post by Roy on the Forum).

I belong to the FEPOW Family Group, none of the members could find anything to indicate that Hill served in Singapore this again tells me that there is a 99.9%* probability that he was not there.
The Pacific Star remains a mystery for now. Roy is going to look through his information to see if he has anything else on Hill.

Bob, can you see if you can correct Hill's Service number in the subject heading, I cannot see how to do it.

Take care
Cliff

PS: I forgot the attachment, hope it posts OK, I had to reduce the file size from 1.66Mb got it down to 221Kb using Photopad set to Percentage and reduced to 20%.               
« Last Edit: May 12, 2023, 04:44:39 PM by Bob.NB »
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC