Author Topic: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920  (Read 1041 times)

Offline GT

  • ****
  • Posts: 116
Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« on: September 11, 2022, 06:26:40 PM »
Hi all,

Can anyone provide any further info on a soldier I am researching from the 2nd Bn, 77806/3513219 Pte  John O'Loughlin (B Coy) of Wigan.

I have read the original topic by Mons Star and on the list of casualties he provided it shows him killed at Hilla on 24 July 1920. However the CWGC records show him dying of disease on 11 August and is buried in Baghdad War Cemetery.

As the POW's were reportedly released in October I was wondering if he  was already in hospital and missed the action at Hilla.

His MIC shows he served in the King's Own Royal Regt and MGC before transferring to the Manchester's. Is it possible to determine the date going off his original number of 77806.

Thanks
GT

Offline Tim Bell

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,045
    • Grandad's Journey
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2022, 07:48:50 AM »
Morning Ginge,
Please post the link showing he died of disease.  The GSM Roll indicates death was assumed. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/801698:1686?tid=&pid=&queryId=9d335974b4e9c9407fe7a870515a6d5b&_phsrc=hMb1527&_phstart=successSource
Monsstar had taken the original article from another source and it's possible complete records weren't available when it was written.
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Offline GT

  • ****
  • Posts: 116
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2022, 10:04:58 PM »

Offline Tim Bell

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,045
    • Grandad's Journey
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2022, 07:26:40 AM »
Hi Ginge,
I missed the grave register wording, despite seeing it twice!
The Lives of WWI site has 2 entries and a sugestion John died from sand fly fever.  There is ref to a service record that I can't find anywhere.  Suspect they gained this from MoD rather than TNA.  I'm afraid I don't know dates for his short & long number.

The GSM roll shows the Effects return was made in Feb 1921, where most of the others for this period came back in Autumn that year.  Further confirmation that he wasn't missing.
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/3308603
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/3308608
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 09:11:00 AM by Tim Bell »
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2022, 01:26:13 PM »
Tim,
Hope this helps.
Bob B

John O’Loughlin was born in Portarlington, Ireland around January 1891, to Patrick and Ellen O'Loughlin, but moved to England before 1911 as he is shown in the 1911 census as living with his widowed mother and two brothers in the Lancashire coal mining town of Leigh, working at the local colliery as a coal shaft sinker. Following the birth of a son on 30 July 1912 he married Annie Malone, a local girl from Wigan, on 11 June 1913 at St Joseph’s Church and they moved to Wigan. A further son, John, was born in 1914 and another, Joseph, in 1917.
   On 11 August 1915 John attested for the Army at Lancaster, was given the number 20377 and was posted to the Kings Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment, initially to its depot at Lancaster before being posted to the 11th Battalion on 10 November. The 11th (Service) Battalion was formed at Lancaster in August 1915 as a Bantam Battalion (John O’Loughlin despite being 24 years old was only 5’1½” tall). The battalion came under command of 120th Brigade, 40th Division.
   The 40th Division was formed between September and December 1915 and was composed of some bantam units and others which had a mixture of regulation-height and shorter men. The divisional staff assembled at Stanhope Lines, Aldershot, early in September 1915 and by December the various units had concentrated at nearby Blackdown, Pirbright and Woking. Weeding out of very under-sized or unfit men delayed the training programme and it was not until late Spring 1916 that the division was ready to proceed on active service. During this period Pte O’Loughlin was appointed acting lance corporal in November 1915 and promoted corporal on 27 May 1916 even though he forfeited some pay in January and again in March 1916 for going absent.
   The Cpl O’Loughlin and his battalion moved to France on 3 June 1916, sailing from Southampton, disembarking at Le Havre the following day, and by 9 June had concentrated near Lillers. He was posted briefly to the 3rd Battalion on 16 September 1916 but after going absent again (for which he was deducted 6 days’ pay) but was returned to the 11th Battalion on the 16th.
   The 40th Division served between June and late October 1916 on the Front near Loos. However, Cpl O’Loughlin was ‘wounded in action’ on 22 June and, after passing through 45th Field Ambulance and 7th General Hospital at St Omer, he was returned to the UK on HM Hospital Ship Cambria.
   Following recovery from his wounds Cpl O’Loughlin embarked at Folkestone on 1 December 1916 on the SS Princess Henrietta for Boulogne. After a short spell at the regiment’s depot at Etaples, he was posted back to the 11th Battalion ‘in the Field’ on 19 December. However, on 1 January 1917 he went to hospital with bronchitis returning to his battalion just two days later. On 2 February Cpl O’Loughlin reverted to private at his own request.
   During 1917 the 11th Battalion took part in the German retreat to the Hindenburg Line (March); the capture of Fifteen Ravine, Villers Plouich, Beaucamp and La Vacquerie (April and early May); the Cambrai Operations, in which the 40th Division participated in the capture of Bourlon Wood (November). During this time exactly where Pte O’Loughlin served is unknown but he was probably with his battalion throughout this time but he did have two short spells in hospital before he returned to the UK on 9 January 1918 for two weeks’ furlough.
   On 7 February 1918 due to losses throughout the Army the 40th Division was disbanded and Pte O’Loughlin was transferred to the 8th Battalion on 5 February. However, on 14 February 1918 he was transferred to 233 Company Machine Gun Corps before moving to 3rd Battalion The Machine Gun Corps on 14 March. He was hospitalised for three weeks with tuberculosis on 21 April. Pte O’Loughlin remained in France until the end of the war proceeding to the UK on 23 December 1918 for demobilisation at the corps’ depot at Oswestry. He was transferred to the Reserve on 23 January 1919 before being finally discharged on 22 July 1919.
   Having been discharged from the Army on 22 June 1919, John O’Loughlin re-enlisted in the Army the very next day at Ashton-Under-Lyne and was posted to 2nd Battalion, The Manchester Regiment (‘C’ Company) on 23 July and given the number 77806 but later, with the Army’s new numbering system, he was given the number 3513219.
   After the Armistice in November 1918 the 2nd Battalion had moved to Belgium and had later transferred to Bonn in Germany where it had formed part of the British Army of Occupation. During the early part of 1919, demobilisation was rapidly carried out and in April the battalion cadre had returned to England. April to November 1919 was chiefly spent at Bordon Camp in gradually reforming the battalion for overseas service which is where Pte O’Loughlin joined it.
   A fourth son was born to Annie O’Loughlin in December 1919. Pte O’Loughlin’s bad habits followed him to his new regiment and over the next twelve months he forfeited his pay on six occasions. The battalion was then placed under orders for Mesopotamia (Iraq) and sailed from Tilbury on HMT Macedonia on 13 February 1920 to Basra and, after a journey up the river Tigris on the SS Coconada, the battalion reached Baghdad in April.
   Stationed in Tekrit, life was no picnic - no washhouses, dining tents or recreation tents, just a few tents to sleep in and to make matters worse Pte O’Loughlin suffered from buttock ulcers. He was transferred to the O.C. Hospital in Baghdad on 24 July 1920 and so appears to have missed the action at Hillah on that day. He was discharged to duty in Baghdad on 30 July but was re-admitted to hospital on 30 July suffering from sand fly fever and died in the 23rd British Stationary Hospital on 11 August. His papers state that he died ‘from cardiac arrest following sand fly fever’. Pte O’Loughlin was buried at Baghdad (North Gate) Cemetery.
   For his service in the First World War Pte John O’Loughlin was awarded the British War Medal 1914-20 and Victory Medal 1914-19 (named: 20377 CPL. J. O’LOUGHLIN. R. LANC. R. ) that his wife, Annie, received on 22 June 1922 and later she would have received his General Service Medal 1918-62 with clasp ‘IRAQ’ (named: 77806 PTE. J. O’LOUGHLIN. MANCH. R. )

Offline Tim Bell

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,045
    • Grandad's Journey
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2022, 11:59:21 AM »
Great work Bob. Solves the mystery and more
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Offline GT

  • ****
  • Posts: 116
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2022, 07:42:35 PM »
Thanks Tim and especially Bob , brilliant work. Tim I am not Ginge Taylor, my name is Graham although I do know Ginge. John O'Loughlin  seems quite a character. The story actually started on 27 Aug 1914, his pension records show he enlisted in Glasgow as  Gunner No 93494 RFA. At the time he was working in a circus and of no fixed residence. He was posted to 80 Bde Ammo Column but went AWOL twice, he was Court Marshalled on 27 Feb 1915 and sentenced to 6 months imprisonment and discharged from the army. This was harsh for going AWOL so there must be a story behind it somewhere. He must have re-enlisted straight after his sentence in to the Kings Own Royal Lancastrian Regt in August of that year. The CWGC entry shows he was a member of B Coy when he died so must have transferred from C Coy. The part about the 1911 census in Leigh is incorrect though, the John you refer is a John Loughlin, without the O at at the beginning. In 1911 he was living at 8 Pitt St, Wigan and both his parents were alive. His father died in 1921 and his mother in 1926.....   Bob can I ask you where you got such detailed info from because I couldn't find his records from the four service  numbers on his MIC.  Just out of interest John O'Loughlin's family later became a famous rugby dynasty. His grandsons Kevin and Keiron both played for Wigan. His gt' grandson is Sean O'Loughlin the ex Wigan and GB captain and current assistant coach at Wigan Warriors. His granddaughter Colleen married Andy Farrell, captain of Wigan and GB, a dual code international, assistant coach for England RU and current head coach for Ireland. Andy's son is of course Owen Farrell, captain of England and Saracens. RUFC.   
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 09:27:11 PM by GT »

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2022, 05:48:37 PM »
Graham,
Very many thanks for all this additional info - all very interesting.
Best wishes.
Bob

Offline GT

  • ****
  • Posts: 116
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2022, 10:56:21 PM »
Cheers Bob,

I am still puzzled however where you got all this personal info from as I can't find any service records.

Rgds

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2022, 04:15:05 PM »
Graham,
I applied for them (at a cost of £30) from the MoD in Glasgow.
I'm also puzzled because his records that I have don't mention RFA or Kings Own (Royal Lancaster) service - might I ask where you got these details from.
Many thanks.
Bob B

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
Re: Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2022, 05:19:35 PM »
Graham,
Many thanks again for this extra information.
I have finally found O’Loughlin’s RFA records – I hadn’t found him with my previous searches as I included his Manchester Regiment numbers in my searches.
Also, it’s obvious why his previous service is not mentioned on his Manchester Regiment service papers that I have – he kept very quiet when signing on again as he had been “Discharged with ignominy …” from the RFA.
I’ve also changed my write up to take account of my mistake with the 1911 census records.
Re dates: O’Loughlin was transferred to the Army Reserve, Class Z, on 19 January 1919 before being finally discharged on 22 July 1919 (not 22 June as shown previously) having re-enlisted for 2 years under Army Order 155 of 1919 the very next day at Ashton-Under-Lyne.
Re his hospital dates, he was ‘Discharged to duty’ in Baghdad on 30 July but was re-admitted to hospital on 7 August (not 30 July – I had taken the date from the line above in his records) suffering from sand fly fever.
Apologies for these errors in dates.
I've also sent this to you as a personal email.
Thanks again.
Bob B