Hello - researching Sergeant Thomas Broadbent (Reg No. 6960)

[JCWilliams]

Hello,
I've been researching my 1st cousin 3x removed, Thomas Broadbent (1893-1916), whose photo I attach. I have always been fascinated by this portrait and remember coming across it at a young age and seeing "Cousin Tom" inscribed on the reverse. There is quite a lot of information available online about Thomas, including details of his engineering training and memorials on which he is commemorated. He was killed in action 9 July 1916.

I've seen a list online of XIII Platoon of the 16th  Regiment but not yet been able to identify Thomas (based on the photo I have). He is listed as having been in the group portrait. Should anyone have come across any further information about Thomas, I'd be very interested to hear from you. I look forward to finding out more about the Manchester Regiment.

[Tim Bell]

Hi JC,
The photo is somewhat surprising because he is not wearing a Manchester Regiment cap badge.  I'm no expert on other badges but think the image shows the Rifle Brigade, although I can't see a crown at the top of the badge. 
It's possible Tom served in the Rifle Brigade before he enlisted in the Manchesters on 3 Sept 1914.  They had no Territorial or Special Reserve Bns at this stage, so he may have joined a Regular Bn prior to the Great War or a Service Bn in Aug 1914.  This is very unlikely and it makes me doubt the photo is Tom.  We know he was an Engineer at Crossley Brothers, so he doesn't appear to have been a pre-war Regular and Crossley Bros staff are unlikely to have joined a Winchester based Regiment.  Do you have another Tom in your family tree?  If you could zoom in on the shoulder title this may help too.
I've spent hours pondering photos of my Grandad in III Pln and generally convinced myself of the candidate.  Ears are a good thing to look at, as expressions may be different and facial features may be hidden.  If it's not Tom Broadbent in the photo, this is even more challenging.
For other sources George Coglin's site is excellent. http://www.traffordwardead.co.uk/index.php?sold_id=s%3A15%3A%221291%2Caltrincham%22%3B&letter=&place=&war=&soldier=Broadbent
Also Uni of Manchester Roll
http://www.ww1.manchester.ac.uk/roll-of-honour/thomas-broadbent/
Also the CWGC record for his commemoration at Thiepval.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/765031/thomas-broadbent/
We have a great POW database. http://www.themanchesters.org/pow.htm ICRC records show that Tom was posted missing at Trones Wood on 9 July 1916. A Miss Meakin made enquires with ICRC and  Private 7098 Frederick Davies of 16th Bn confirmed he had been killed in action on 9 July.  This was recorded on 18/02/1917 and communicated to the family on 13/04/1917.
Welcome to the Forum
Tim

[charlie]

I agree with Tim, the soldier in the photo isn't (at the time of the photo) in the Manchester Regt. He is wearing a cap badge similar to the Rifle Brigade but without the crown and battle honours, the button on his breast pocket has a bugle horn surmounted with a crown, there is also something above his shoulder title possibly a number and the letter ,,T". This suggests to me a Territorial Force infantry battalion with Rifle Regiment associations.

Charlie

[JCWilliams]

Hello both,

Thanks very much for your thoughts on this, and for the pointers of other places where I can find out more about Thomas. I should have noticed that the badge was not correct but sent the message hurriedly at work.

It's certainly a bit of a mystery. I asked my mother to check the inscription on the back of the photograph and it says "Cousin Tom, who was shot by sniper" (cause of death of Thomas Broadbent). We do not have anyone else in the family who fits the bill as a "cousin Tom" and we have several documents from this branch of the family, which appear to have passed from one of Tom's cousins to the daughter of another cousin, my grandmother. It's entirely possible that at some point the photo was misidentified.

It would certainly be interesting if he did have another, previously unknown, association and I will continue to look into the cap badge/shoulder title.

Joe

[Tim Bell]

Charlie has enlightened me again.  It seems the man in the photo may have been in the Territorials. It is then possible Tom served with them pre-war before returning to serve with the Manchester Regiment. As he was studying in Manchester up to 1911 (maybe longer) the possible window for this image is from then to 1914.  This also creates an explanation for a relatively young man being a Sgt by Nov 1915.

The word on the shoulder title is the key to the identity of the particular Bn.  There seems a strong prospect the badge is part of the London Regiment.  http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/london-regiment/

As a strange curve ball Crossley Bros used the same Coptic Cross as their emblem...

[JCWilliams]

Thanks again for your help with this. One suggestion received online is that it's the 7th Notts & Derbys (The Robin Hood Rifles) with the crown broken off the cap badge. I will keep researching. I have attempted to contact Thomas Broadbent's great-nephew on Ancestry (should the family have any other photos/info) but messages are unread as it stands.
Joe

[charlie]

I think the best bet would for you to post a high res scan of the shoulder title. Another option, if you haven't already done so, would be to post the photo on the Great War Forum https://www.greatwarforum.org/ there are some very knowledgable people regarding badges and uniform on the site.

Charlie

[JCWilliams]

Thanks again for your help. I came across a letter at home from a 2nd cousin 3x removed to my great-grandfather's cousin (a keen family historian) in 1985. This wasn't a branch of my family that I had pursued on the family tree. In adding this distant cousin to my tree I noticed that she had a brother who died in 1918, and who had served in the Notts & Derbys - Private Alfred Sydney Poyser. I think that perhaps in a different exchange of correspondence this photo must have been shared, and then later misidentified as my ancestor who was in the Manchester Regiment.