Pte 46901 - George Wm Poyser - 12th Manchester Regiment

[ChrisS]

Hi New to forum and interested about any information on Great Grandfather George was born in Bradford Manchester in 1892. He joined the 12th Battalion 16 Nov 1915.  Went to France 3 Dec 1916 and was wounded 25 April 1917 we believe at Arras.  This information comes from his will and particulars of service document.  Can anyone enlighten us further about the events from nov 1915 and going to France in late 1916 and action in early 1917.  He was apparently sent to St Thomas's hospital in London where his left leg was amputated.  Tried to find his war record but no luck. Have downloaded his medal card.

[M/C P]

Dear ChrisS

The 11th 12th and 13th Btns were the first Btns created in response to Kitcheners need to fight the war in 1914. ( per Manchester Regiment)
If you go to this link  http://www.1914-1918.net/BATTLES/bat13_loos/bat.htm  it might help you, but I am sure that the experts on this Forum will be able to tell you for sure if I have the right Division or not.
Otherwise try a search on the Long, Long Trail.

Pat

[harribobs]

Hi ChrisS

and welcome to the forum

thanks for that Pat, indeed the 11th, 12th and 13th were the first to volunteer, but the best place to look for information on the 12th is on this web site

go to this section first for general information on the 12th battalion

http://www.themanchesters.org/12th%20batt.htm

and this section for the 12th Battalion War Diaries, July 1915 - August 1916

http://www.themanchesters.org/12th%20WD.htm

Chris can you post the medal index card so we can have a look at it please

chris

[tisgrannie]

Hi I hope you don't mind my adding the medal card for George.
regards
tisgrannie

[ChrisS]

Thanks for the information - Hope I am doing this right by responding to the same thread.  I have 2 photographs of George. 1) On his wedding day in 1916 after he had joined up and 2) As a young man with what appear to be badges of the red cross.  The uniform looks military - would this have anything to do with the regiment?  Are there any diary's in Ashton library relating to April 1917?

[tisgrannie]

Hi Chris The first pic as you know is definitley Man Regt. cap badge. I can see shoulder badges but obviously can't make them out. The experts will be along and say what they probably are, and hopefully what the second uniform is!
As regards the diary, the link to the Archives there is a list on the link to what they have. maybe not as detailed as exactly what year etc. maybe the folks on here will know.
Great photos, thanks for letting us see them.
regards
tisgrannie

[harribobs]

hi chris

yes you are totally right to keep to this thread

i really don't know what the early medical type uniform is, it does look very military but the belt looks wrong and i don't recognise the badge, i'm afraid

looking at the first picture, i may be wrong but his shoulder title looks like a territorial battalion ( batts 5-10) i may be wrong because of the quality but that's something we can look at

i don't think the archives have the 12th battalion war diaries, you may well be interested in this book though which is available there

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/webapps/shopping/moreinfo.php3?363

In April 1917, the battalion were at Sus St Leger, Berlincourt, Beaufort, Simencourt then Arras on the 9th, this was for the battle of Arras (http://www.1914-1918.net/bat18.htm here the battalion was heavily shelled from the 12th-14th

[John martin]

HI, have you had a look at the buttons on the second photo & what do you think they are?
                                 John Martin

[Fritz Bayer]

On the second photo, the cap badge is the cap badge for drivers of the IRC. They wore this in 1914-18, but I don't know about earlier. The semi-military uniform (it's similar to the 1902 SD jacket, but with quite a lot of differences) was for IRC members who worked in military establishments, and areas (such as war zones!). I believe they were privately purchased (possibly with some funding), but may be wrong.

(Bear in mind that I'm talking about the red cross of 1914-18 here - I don't know, but they may have had these uniforms anyway (without any military attachment) as they were run pretty much on military lines.)

Dave.

[Fritz Bayer]

looking at the first picture, i may be wrong but his shoulder title looks like a territorial battalion ( batts 5-10)

My first thoughts too.

Chris - were Manc reg pre-TF volunteers badged with purely white metal badges? That cap badge looks "mono-metal" to me and I was thinking - territorial battalions of the East Lancs were sometimes still badged with purely white metal badges even after 1908 (as they were before). Could this be the same here?

Dave

[ChrisS]

Hi Again
I have had a go at enlarging the cap badge and button which appears to be an embossed cross
Regards Chris

[Fritz Bayer]

Apologies - I should have written BRC instead of IRC. Not necessarily a driver - it's the standard cap=badge...

[harribobs]

looking at the first picture, i may be wrong but his shoulder title looks like a territorial battalion ( batts 5-10)

My first thoughts too.

Chris - were Manc reg pre-TF volunteers badged with purely white metal badges? That cap badge looks "mono-metal" to me and I was thinking - territorial battalions of the East Lancs were sometimes still badged with purely white metal badges even after 1908 (as they were before). Could this be the same here?

Dave

re the VB's yes i assume they were white metal, but if we are talking about 1916...i am still a little dubious that's a just a scratch on the photo and we're actually looking at a standard 'Manchester' shoulder title. hopefully someone will check the medal role ( when they get chance  )

ChrisS

I forgot to mention he was also awarded the Silver War Badge as well as the Victory and British War medals

from the national Archives site


The Silver War Badge (SWB), sometimes erroneously called the Silver Wound Badge, was authorised in September 1916 and takes the form of a circular badge with the legend "For King and Empire-Services Rendered" surrounding the George V cypher. The badge was awarded to all of those military personnel who were discharged as a result of sickness or wounds contracted or received during the war, either at home or overseas.