Richard Lawrence Ward 20th Manchester Regiment

[damopk1]

I am researching my mother's grandfather Richard Lawrence Ward and have found some information on Ancestry but am not sure where to go next.

The information in the WWI Medals Rolls Index says that he was in the 20th Manchester Regiment. That his rank was WOCLII, regimental number 200056. Under Victory are a series of numbers, roll H/1/104 B13 and page 2859.

The meaning of all this is beyond me at the moment. I have looked up the 20th Battalion and found a little info but would be very grateful if anyone has any more information or can point me in the right direction.

Thanks

Damian

[mack]

your great grandfather,was one of the original 1/5th manchesters
if my info is correct,he was the son of thomas+sarah ward,1 vere st,wigan
occupation,collier
he was 30yrs old when the war began
his father was a railway signal fitter
brother thomas
sister beatrice.

mack

[damopk1]

Thanks Mack. Your info is correct. That's about as far as I've got at this stage. I don't think Sarah was his mother though because she was too young. I have ordered his marriage certificate but I need to send for his birth certificate to confirm his mother's identity.  I think she must have died some time before the 1891 census.

Any info on the battalion and what they did would be gratefully appreciated. I'll have a look on the web myself.

Thanks for your help.

Damian

[harribobs]

hi damian

and welcome

hmmm  mack is ahead of me

i can see his MIC,  which shows him as going abroad after 1915

his service number puts him as a 5th battalion soldier in 1917, but his MIC say he must have been transfered to the 20th!

chris

[damopk1]

I have just been looking through the forums and various other websites to learn about the 1/5th. Would my great grandfather have been in Galipoli?

Can anyone recommend any good books on Galipoli?

Thanks for all the help. This is really fascinating.

Damian

[harribobs]

damian

i see from your avatar you have a picture of him, can you post it so we can see it please ( we like seeing the men we are researching and can we add it to our gallery!)



my problem at the moment is that i can't see him going out with the 1/5th to gallipoli  (but to i would have expected it), there may be another MIC or mack may have seen something else

chris

[themonsstar]

I feel that Richard would already been in or just joined the 5th Bn in Aug 1914. He may have been given a job training the new 2/5th & 3/5th which would have been looking for good Ptes/NCOs for training the new Battalions. This job would have stop him from moving overseas with the rest of the 1/5th Bn. His number 200056 was issue to him after Jan 1917, He was then posted to the 20th Battalion some time after getting the number, as this is the unit he joined overseas. He then moved to the 12th Battalion at some point before the end of the war.



1/5th Bn sailed from Southampton for Egypt 10/9/14.

2/5th Bn formed at Wigan Aug 1914 Feb 1917 landed in France.

3/5th Bn formed at Wigan May 1915, became a reserve Bn for the 5,6 & 7th Bn.

20th Bn  1917 France, in Nov 1917 moved to Italy until Sept 1918 moved back to France.

12th Bn  1917 France, Sept 1917 absorbed RHQ & two Sqn of the Duke of Lancs Yeo, end of the War in France.

[mack]

Thanks Mack. Your info is correct. That's about as far as I've got at this stage. I don't think Sarah was his mother though because she was too young. I have ordered his marriage certificate but I need to send for his birth certificate to confirm his mother's identity.  I think she must have died some time before the 1891 census.

Any info on the battalion and what they did would be gratefully appreciated. I'll have a look on the web myself.

Thanks for your help.

Damian

i dont think thomas+sarah were his parents.
its possible,that his parents,were samuel+mary,jane ward.27 hollinwood st,ordsall [1891]other children,thomas,d ward/margaret,a ward/elizabeth.
richard was born in salford.
i think thomas+beatrice,are thomas+sarahs kids.and richard is adopted[possibly his brothers son]

our lassess on here may solve it for you damian.

mack

[damopk1]

You're all very kind to help with this. My mum is really curious to learn more as she never met him, apparently he died some time in the 1930s. I have attached a photo of Richard.

As he is in the medal rolls, does this mean he won a medal. Is there any way to find out what this was for?

His parentage is really unclear and I am expecting the marriage and birth certificates will clear up this mystery.

Thanks again

Damian

[damopk1]

Feel free to add the photo to your archives!

[tisgrannie]

Hi Damian, I have just spent a little while trying to find Richard Lawrence on various sites. Where do you intend getting his birth certificate from. I am just curious. I looked on Lancashire and Free BMD. Do you have a birthdate? I am intrigued I have looked at 1891 Richard looked on that to possibly be Samuel and Mary Janes son. The age fits. He wasn't Lawrence on that. I think that people with a middle name who use it when older usually always use it. I would like to help. I have looked at all the  medal cards for Richard Wards. As is on here, there was only one Richard Lawrence.
The marriage cert should give Fathers name at least.
Look forward to more info coming out.
Best wishes
tisgrannie

[damopk1]

Thanks Tisgrannie. I have sent off to the GRO for both his marriage certificate and birth certificate. He was born in the Oct-Dec quarter of 1884 in Salford Vol 8D p120. He was married to Ellen Strong in 1914 Jul-Sep quarter Vol 8c p231. When I get the info (hopefully next week) I'll post it on here.

I have a strong feeling that he wasn't Samuel and Mary Jane's son. My reasoning is that the name Richard Ward shows up as living with Samuel and Mary in both 1891 and 1901. Whereas the name Richard Lawrence Ward shows up as living with Thomas in the 1901 census. Thomas' wife Sarah (who was born in Devon) is too young to be Richard's mother. But in the 1891 census I did find another Richard Ward (born about 1882) living with cousin Joseph Kelly in Salford. The birth dates are a bit of a discrepancy but it could be another possibility.

I'll have a better idea when the certificates arrive and this is all speculation of course but my belief is that Thomas was Richard's father. His mother died in the first 7 years of his life and his father went to work elsewhere in the country (Devon?) leaving Richard with the Kellys who were perhaps related to Richard's mother. Thomas returned with a new wife Sarah and Richard went to live with them.

Funnily enough I am a Kelly too! But there's no connection, I hope...

Thanks. Let me know if this all sounds like nonsense.

Damian

[harribobs]

As he is in the medal rolls, does this mean he won a medal. Is there any way to find out what this was for?

he was awarded the british war and the victory medals, they are campaign medals rather than gallantry medals

[damopk1]

Thanks Harribobs. That's another piece of the puzzle in place.

Damian

[harribobs]

i like that photo a lot, he's showing of his rank badges, marksman and shoulder title off!