Author Topic: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban  (Read 522 times)

Offline mack

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2021, 11:26:23 AM »
hello tim
now you understand why we collect postcards,this is the sort of thing that can come from buying one card,this card has ID the history of one german soldier,the fate of a manchester soldier AND you and charlie have had a great time compiling all this info,all for the price of a few quid.

tim
you know i have to ask cos ime a curious git,how much did the card cost

mack

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2021, 02:18:37 PM »
hello tim
now you understand why we collect postcards,this is the sort of thing that can come from buying one card,this card has ID the history of one german soldier,the fate of a manchester soldier AND you and charlie have had a great time compiling all this info,all for the price of a few quid.

tim
you know i have to ask cos ime a curious git,how much did the card cost

mack
Amazing work by Charlie. The card cost 2 Euros + 1 p&p
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2021, 07:01:59 AM »
The big reveal is very interesting from many perspectives.  I can actually touch the handwriting of this Bavarian chap who served in the Montauban defences opposite the 2nd Bttn and is recorded as capturing one of them.  We also receive a narrative of the conditions in the village cross-referencing the church photos. Also the unbroken fields that were subsequently mashed up by persistent artillery fire (where are the hedges that are talked about?)
These cards have such a big story from their otherwise inellegible script.  Superb service from Charlie.
BTW
Charlie,
The photo from the end of Talus Bois shows the area where you think the cemetery was - to the right of where the headgerow (railway) and the lane converge, but in the wheat field below them.  I think this area would have been too dangerous as it was overlooked from the camera / sniper angle. I am also wondering if the place where the photo was taken was near the listening post where James Hollingworth was captured by Lorenz Heigermoser.
On the other hand the French line of mid-1915 may not have fully extended out to the tip of Talus Bois, in which case this hollow would have been an ideal place for a cemetery.  I need to look for some French trench maps.
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Offline charlie

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2021, 09:19:45 AM »
Tim,
It was a pleasure to translate and research the card, there is something special about personal items. Attached is part of a map used by 5 Div HQ for the relief of the French in August 1915 so I presume the trenches are accurate. Trench 29 where Pte Hollingworth was captured by Heigermoser’s Regiment is at the top of Main Ave.
Charlie

Offline charlie

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2021, 09:22:49 AM »
Forgot to add the grid squares are not numbered the same as on the later maps of the area.

Offline mack

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2021, 11:42:00 AM »
if pte hollingsworth was the man captured,he didnt survive the day,he died in the 2nd field hospital at combles from a stab wound in the lung,he bled to death

mack

Offline charlie

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2021, 03:16:24 PM »
I am also wondering if the place where the photo was taken was near the listening post where James Hollingworth was captured by Lorenz Heigermoser.

Not possible Tim. James Hollingworth was taken by men of No.5 Company which was part of the 2nd Bn and was holding the regiment‘s left flank. Lorenz Heigermoser was serving on the regiments right flank with No.1 Company which was part of the 1st Bn. Montauban would also have been to the left of the cemetery.

Charlie

Offline mack

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2021, 07:16:03 AM »
hiya tim
i dont know if its any use to you,in the 90th inf brigade war diary[page 245]theres a detailed map of montauban and it shows where the dugouts were

mack

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2021, 07:50:45 AM »
It's a good plan Mack.  I also like the one on the previous page with the Assembly trenches.  The last known location for many 90th Bge men.
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Offline mack

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2021, 08:20:30 AM »
isnt the dugouts on the plan the same ones marked on your postcard

mack

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2021, 09:55:08 AM »
I missed your point Mack!  I'll have another look later.
Here's an image of Germans in one of those dugouts in May 1918. https://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/2013/10/31/montauban-photographs-then-now/#jp-carousel-27111
Courtesy Charlie:-
Blitzlichtaufnahme im Unterstand in Lager bei Montauban. Mai 1918.
 Flashphoto taken in the dugout in the camp at Montauban. May 1918

Seeing smiling Germans back in the dugout they had to leave in July 1916 has some resonance - and interesting to note it still appears to be undamaged; it must have been deep.  They vacated again in July 1918.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 10:57:44 AM by Tim Bell »
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Offline charlie

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2021, 01:07:02 PM »
You might be surprised at the accommodation build by Heigermoser‘s Regt in Bois Favière for the 2nd Bn HQ and the Bn‘s Coy that was in reserve.
Charlie

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2021, 04:51:18 PM »
That is truly ridiculous, being less than 500m from the British front line in Maricourt Wood.  I wonder if there were tunnels underneath in case of 'inclement' conditions.
As this was the French sector I doubt there was much left of the chalet after the June 1916 bombardment.  I may take a peak when I can.
Thanks for posting.
Tim
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Offline charlie

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2021, 08:04:27 PM »
Yes, I was quite surprised myself, perhaps if they had contained their energies to the necessary, 1918 might have ended differently. One would hope that there was also some form of underground cover as well.
Charlie

Offline mack

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Re: Talus Bois German Cemetery, Montauban
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2021, 10:12:26 AM »
that structure could be more decieving than you think,judging by the steepness of the handrail and steps in the bottom left hand corner, and the steps leading down into the building,i would say this is quite well down,its possible its a HQ dugout built into the hill and they have added a nice facia to it,the germans were well known for their well furnished dugouts

mack