Author Topic: 2nd Lt. Thomas Fletcher Brown : 7th Bn. Manchester Regt.  (Read 531 times)

Offline PhilipG

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2nd Lt. Thomas Fletcher Brown : 7th Bn. Manchester Regt.
« on: October 27, 2020, 12:50:52 PM »
This officer was KIA on the 30th May 1915, his NOK being domiciled in Belfast.    He is commemorated in the Redoubt Cemetery, Helles by a Special Memorial -  No. A.110.     Have we detail of the wording which is likely to be engraved on this memorial, please ?        PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: 2nd Lt. Thomas Fletcher Brown : 7th Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2020, 08:13:38 AM »
their glory shall not be blotted out

mack

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 2nd Lt. Thomas Fletcher Brown : 7th Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2020, 03:29:04 PM »
Mack,   Thank you.     PhilipG.

Offline Krithia Spur

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Re: 2nd Lt. Thomas Fletcher Brown : 7th Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2021, 03:38:27 PM »
Hi,
You may already be aware but just in case - 2nd Lt. Thomas Fletcher Brown is mentioned in Gerald B. Hurst's book 'With Manchesters in the East' on p.24 which gives his date of death as 28 May 1915.
He along with Captains T.W. Savatard and R.V. Rylands all died on the night of 28th while advancing the line on ground in front of the Redoubt Line, just to the east of Krithia Road [to form the eastern part of the trench that later became know as Wigan Road].
The passage relates; "....and Lieut. T.F. Brown, a gallant boy, who, in the happier days of the threatened war in Ulster, had served in the West Belfast Loyalist Volunteers."
Mike C.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 05:39:35 AM by Krithia Spur »

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 2nd Lt. Thomas Fletcher Brown : 7th Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2021, 09:12:25 PM »
Hi Mike,
All the apperent online evidence indicates 30/05/1915.  Have you found anything official for 28th May?
Tim
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
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Offline Krithia Spur

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Re: 2nd Lt. Thomas Fletcher Brown : 7th Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2021, 11:18:05 PM »
Hi Tim,


Unfortunately the 1/7th Manchesters war diary for this period has been lost and the brigade diary at this time did not record casualties. The divisional 'A' Branch diary for the 30 May 1915 [note: information given in this diary is often one, two or three days after the event] does record the casualties for the 7th Manchesters as Captains Savatard [who was actually wounded] and Rylands killed, Lieut. G.S. Lockwood wounded, 14 ORs killed and 27 wounded. The entry for the 31 May records Lieut. Brown as being killed together with 3 ORs and another 13 being wounded - however, given that by daylight on the 29th May the new firing-line [Wigan Road] was deep enough for men to take cover in - it is probable that at least some of these casualties may have been incurred in the advance of the 28th/29th and that casualty reports had 'trickled in'.

Additionally, not only is this episode [and Lt. Brown being killed during its execution] mentioned in Hurst's book but is also reiterated in "The Lancashire Fighting Territorials" p.92 [George Bigwood] and again in "The Manchesters" p.36 by [Capt. G.L. Campbell].
It could be that all originate from the same source [probably an officers letter published in the press] so may all be wrong - Hurst is certainly mistaken about Captain Savatard [as was the 'A' Branch diary] who was only wounded in the advance of the night 28th/29th. Savatard returned to duty and was killed on the first day of Third Battle of Krithia, [4th June] while organising ammunition resupply to the new firing-line. The other two books are, however, more reliable on this point with both giving Savatard's date of death as the 4th June.
 
My gut feeling is that this advance of the line and the loss of two officers during it, was a significant event [it was the first time the battalion and the 127th Brigade had taken heavy losses] and I think would have stuck in the battalion's collective memory.
Its also worth noting that all three books mentioned above were published very shortly after the campaign, Hurst's book in 1918 and the other two in early 1916.
 
Record keeping at Gallipoli in this early period was problematic, with casualty reports being filed days after the event,  leading to a fair amount of inaccuracy when the IWGC came to record the dates of death  later. I have had personal experience of this over many years of researching the dead at Gallipoli - with the dates recorded on the CWGC site [and on memorials] being contradicted [in some cases by many days] by the dates given in the unit war diaries and in other sources.

All that said, who can really be sure........

MikeC
   
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 05:40:49 AM by Krithia Spur »