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Hello / Re: Hello New member looking for information on the Malaysia Campaign
« Last post by artyhughes on September 11, 2022, 08:07:29 PM »
Julie
On the home page of the forum use the search  enter Cameron Highlands Ambush and you will directed to the link I think it is post No3 there is a full account of the ambush Best Wishes

Here is the link to it: http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=5803.msg37502#msg37502

Almost identical to what is in Jungle Bashers.

Cliff
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1919 - 1938 / Pte John O'Loughlin 2n Bn Iraq 1920
« Last post by GT on September 11, 2022, 06:26:40 PM »
Hi all,

Can anyone provide any further info on a soldier I am researching from the 2nd Bn, 77806/3513219 Pte  John O'Loughlin (B Coy) of Wigan.

I have read the original topic by Mons Star and on the list of casualties he provided it shows him killed at Hilla on 24 July 1920. However the CWGC records show him dying of disease on 11 August and is buried in Baghdad War Cemetery.

As the POW's were reportedly released in October I was wondering if he  was already in hospital and missed the action at Hilla.

His MIC shows he served in the King's Own Royal Regt and MGC before transferring to the Manchester's. Is it possible to determine the date going off his original number of 77806.

Thanks
GT
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Non Commissioned Graves / Re: Pte 3629 John Higgins (alias Higginson) - 12th Bn
« Last post by PaulC on September 11, 2022, 03:11:49 PM »
John Higginson, age 37 of 14 Middle Lane, buried at Rochdale Cemetery on 05/07/1918: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-PPP5?i=470&cat=1003215
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The photograph of Thoms Harding depicts him wearing a sash over his legt shoulder in infantry regiments the sash is worn over the right shoulder the exception are the Light Infanty units who wear the sash over the left shoulder,
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Dear Black Sapper
From One Sapper to another.
Regarding the Volunteers - Originally the Volunteers across the Manchester area, were Rifle Volunteers. I'm researching the Wigan Volunteers and I'l use them as the example. The Wigan Volunteers were originally the 21st Lancashire Rifle Volunteer Corps. (21st LRVC). All of the units were LRVC, the number they were given depended on the date they formed. This included the Manchester Units. They had a LRVC number but they were also given a Manchester Regiment number. In the case of your ancester, he was part of the 40th LRVC (also known as the 3rd Manchester). These units made the decision to emulate Rifle Companies and not Line Infantry units. Thier first set of uniforms were Green not scarlet.
Throughout the 1870 and 1880's several changes were made. In 1881,  the War Office, through the Childers Reforms, changed the designation and types of units. Many of the Rifle Regiments became Line Units and changed thier uniforms to scarlet.  For English and Welsh Line units, the facings were white in colour.  If you carry out a search for Harry payne, you will find a picture of the Manchester men in the uniform described.  Your search can start from 1881. In After the Second Boer War, scarlet uniforms were worn less and Khaki dress more often. The Khaki dress was often called 'Service Dress' (Wigan Orders only).  In today's army the crown above the Stripes denotes the rank of Colour Sergeant/Staff Sergeant. The Crossed swords are for Physical Training, I've not seen anyone being designated as a Sgt -Physical Training, but there are Sgt-Inst. Gymnastics. So from the picture he may have been a Sgt-Instructor at Gymnastics. Regarding age and rank. The rank system in the Volunteers did not follow the rank structure of today. From my research there are a number of men in the 1860's and 1870's who are promoted from the rank of Pte to Sgt. These men have taken a proficiency examination and succesfully passed it. In the late 1870's and 1880's the rank structure becomes more rigid. Men are promoted to LCpl, then Cpl etc. There are a few who jump from LCpl to Sgt, or Pte to LSgt but not many. Promotions were made when positions came available. The battalions had a specific number of men and could not recruit more than thier established number. For example, you ancestor could have started out as a Pte in B Company. He passed his proficienct examination and was eligible to be promoted to the rank of Sgt. Each Company had a specific number of slots for SNCO's. 1 CSgt and Sgts. If the only position available as a Sgt is in E Company. He would be moved to E company as a Sgt. He could also be appointed into a rank and await a slot. LCpl's and LSgt's were appointments, these were unpaid slots. So the unit could have several of these in a company.  The terms of service was the same as the TF in 1908. A Volunteer signed on and agreed to complete four years service. they could leave at anytime provided they gave  14 days notice, handed back thier equipment and paid a fee. They usually handed in thier resignation at the end of the Volunteer Year (31st Oct). Personally if I were researching your ancestor I would identify his 18th birthday and then break his service down into 4 year slots.  If he joined earlier than 18,start at the age of 14.  He may have joined as a Bugler of Drummer as a boy. Boys could join from the age of 14 provided they had permission from a parent or guardian. Hope this helps with your research. - Hurrah For The CRE.
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Announcements and Condolence / Re: Our Queen is dead, may she rest in peace
« Last post by artyhughes on September 09, 2022, 01:27:30 PM »
May Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 11 Rest In Peace after 70 years dedicated and loyal service to the country and Commonwealth.
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Announcements and Condolence / Our Queen is dead, may she rest in peace
« Last post by 0285Braithy31 on September 09, 2022, 10:19:01 AM »
Rest in Peace Queen Elizabeth II
28
17th battalion 2nd City / Re: 17th battalion officers
« Last post by Tim Bell on September 08, 2022, 05:40:51 PM »
2nd Lt Alan Thomas Selbourne Holt 17th Bttn (26/03/1895) Merton House & Rugby School, where he had spent 3 years in the OTC. Parents lived in Hale. Alan made another Application for a Regular commission on 7/9/1914, which had been cancelled. Comm Manchesters 28/9/1914. Attended Bombing School at Clapham Common.  Arrived France 5/1/1916 and probably served in A Coy.  Attended 30th Division School at Corbie in May 1916. Wounded in rifle grenade accident 18/8/1916. Embarked Boulogne 22/8/1916. Queen Alexandra's Military Hospital At Millbank 22/08/1916 - 02/09/1916, then 2nd Gen Hosp. Served in 3rd & 4th Bttns 30/10/1916. Lt 13/02/1917. Taken back on strength and rejoined Bttn from Base 11/3/1917. A Coy OC, Wounded (Neck & Knee), captured and MC 23/4/1917. Held Karlsruhe, Freiburg -21/5/1917. Repatriated 4/12/1918.
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17th battalion 2nd City / Re: 17th battalion officers
« Last post by Tim Bell on September 08, 2022, 05:36:05 PM »
2nd Lt George Frederick Ward had enlisted as Private 6697 in the 1st City Battalion on 29th August 1914.  He had previously been employed as a clerk and was 19 years old when he was commissioned 2nd Lieutenant 26th September 1914. George had been selected as an officer following his education at Manchester Grammar School, where he had been a member of the OTC for two years. George's father was mining engineer and general manager of a coal mine.  The family lived in Bramhall, Cheshire. In April 1915, George was OC of X Platoon.  He transferred to 90th Brigade Cyclist Company in September 1915 and served in France with 30th Division Army Cyclists Corps.  In 1916 he was attached to the Royal Flying Corps.
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17th battalion 2nd City / Re: 17th battalion officers
« Last post by Tim Bell on September 08, 2022, 05:27:07 PM »
2nd Lt Elwell, Ernest Edward Depot late 17th Born Walsall 7/11/1891.  Educated Bilton Grange, Rugby and Gresham School 1906-09. Owned tool manufacturers. Enlisted in Public Schools Battalion and volunteered as Despatch Rider in Royal Engineers, going to France on 28th October 1914.  He returned home sick and was commissioned 2nd Lieutenant on 1st March 1915.  OC XI Pln April 1915. He will have known Lt Edward Lawrence Heyworth.  Ernest went overseas  as 2nd Lt in C Coy  in November 1915 and returned home with sickness in Spring 1916.  Transfer to Training Reserve 01/09/1916. He returned to France in 1917 attached to 21st Battalion.  He was killed at Passchendaele on 6th October 1917.
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