The Manchester Regiment Forum

The Great War => 1914 - 1918 => Topic started by: PhilipG on December 28, 2013, 01:30:41 PM

Title: The Manchester German Community
Post by: PhilipG on December 28, 2013, 01:30:41 PM
No. 6802  L/Sgt. Carl Schaefer       Kia 31.7.17.         16th Manchesters
No. 44112 Pte. Herman Schaefer    Kia 21.3.18.         16th Manchesters

In a post under another Topic, it emerged that the above named soldiers of German descent were, through tragic circumstances, left as orphans.  This meant that their aunt Emma, who lived in the Levenshulme district of Manchester, was their only surviving relative.   Arising out of that Topic too, was that there existed in Manchester in 1914, a large German community, possibly it is thought, living in another district in Manchester called Hulme.

Now to continue.  From further research it now appears that it was normal practice for a section of the "Manchester Germans" to visit relatives in Germany in the summer months.  Thus, on the outbreak of war, those male "Manchester Germans" who happened to be in Germany or Austria at that time found themselves in the enemy's armies.  The two Schaefer brothers were in England in 1914, joined the 16th Manchesters and were later killed in action.  Alas, neither Carl nor his brother Herman have known graves, the death of Carl being commemorated on the panels of the Menin Gate Memorial, whilst Herman's name is engraved on the walls of the Pozieres Memorial. His name joins those of his comrades who also fell at Manchester Hill in 1918.

I see that Carl's name is recorded in the "Book of Honour" for the 16th Bn. under No.X Platoon, although he is given the initial of letter "G" in the list, his regimental number is correctly recorded as 6802.

Lastly, I am given to understand that Herman's company commander at Manchester Hill was Lt. J.Clarke, who apparently did not survive the war.  There is much sadness here. PhilipG.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: roytoner on December 28, 2013, 07:41:07 PM
different war,wrong side & not Manchester Regiment related but the Volksbund has records of 6 German soldiers killed in WW2 who were born in Manchester


Glock
Fritz
24.05.1914
13.09.1942
Manchester
 
Gmelin
Werner
28.06.1913
19.11.1944
Manchester
 
Hauschild
Karl-Rudolf
25.04.1912
17.01.1942
Manchester
 
Lampert
Friedrich
29.10.1910
13.03.1944
Manchester
 
R�sch
Ludwig
25.09.1927
01.03.1943
Manchester Rusholme
 
Schnappauf
Heinz
21.12.1914
13.08.1944
Manchester
 
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: mack on December 28, 2013, 08:43:18 PM
hiya Philip
I cant find a german connection to herman and carl,his mother and father were both mancunians and so was their grandmother Elizabeth,if they had german relatives,it must have been back in the 1840s/1850s.

mack ;D
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: PhilipG on December 28, 2013, 09:39:47 PM
Mack,

Thanks for your post. The fact that no birth certificate for his grandfather could be found suggested to me that he was the link with Germany, but I could be wrong.
 
Orphans, kia, no known graves - all terribly sad.   Philip.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: PhilipG on December 28, 2013, 10:03:10 PM
roytoner,

Thanks for your contribution.  The poor lad from Rusholme was a bit young,   I wonder where he fell- in Russia, perhaps?  Regards, PhilipG.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: roytoner on December 30, 2013, 11:31:12 AM
he was with a Flak unit in Berlin
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: k2rbradshaw on January 19, 2014, 01:02:23 PM
My Grandfather married a girl of German descent in 1915. Her parents had emigrated to Manchester in the 1880's and had a total of ten children born in the Hulme district of Manchester. He served in the 1/7 Manchester regiment and family story has it that while he was in France , his house was subject to stones through windows due to having a wife of German descent. I'm fairly certain some of the males in the family were interned, however all internment records were destroyed. Sadly she died from the Spanish Flue epidemic on the 12/11/18 , a day after armistice was declared, leaving two daughters for my grandfather to return to. I think anti german feelings drove all the remaining family to emigrate again to New York although  a few did visit in later years.
                                      
                                                                                                                                                               Richard
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: PhilipG on January 19, 2014, 05:51:40 PM
Richard,

I found your post most interesting.  Thanks for your contribution.  PhilipG.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: roytoner on February 14, 2014, 12:04:03 PM
John Ernest Meyer who was killed when the 2nd KORL were pretty much annihilated on 8/5/1915 was from Clayton. His father Christian was a German subject
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: PhilipG on February 14, 2014, 12:51:46 PM
roytoner,
 Thanks for that.  I think I am on the trail of another possible. (Manchesters and RFC)!  Regards, PhilipG.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: Robert Bonner on May 29, 2014, 10:06:02 AM
Lieutenant Gerald Edward Levinstein was killed in action with the 17th Bn on 12 October 1916. He is commemorated on the Thiepval memorial. He was the third son of Ivan Levinstein born in Berlin Charlottenburg in 1845. 
Ivan Levinstein came to Manchester in 1864 where he established a small factory manufacturing synthetic dyestuffs, which later became the nucleus of the Dystuffs Division of ICI and then BASF.  Ivan Levinstein died at his home in Hale in 1916.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: PhilipG on May 30, 2014, 03:37:14 PM
A good "find".    I wonder if he started at Blackley, Manchester?   PhilipG.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: Tim Bell on June 06, 2014, 02:05:39 PM
I visited Thiepval and Flers again this week and thought about Gerald Levinstein because of extended family connection with the German community. 

He had attended Pembroke College, Cambridge, where Capt. Madden was also an alumnii. His MIC indicates he served as a Private 609 with one of the Public Schools Battalions of the Royal Fusiliers before his Commission with 20th Manchesters on 6/4/15.  CWGC show Gerald as Attached to 17th from 26th Bttn.  He had married Dorothy Edwards of Grafton Street at St Savieur Parish Church on 25/10/15, aged 28 and resident at Prees Heath.  His brother Herbert was a witness.  Gerald's Estate was a significant sum of �27,661 when Probate was granted.  His previous address is noted as as Teddington.  Dorothy had remarried to Arthur Saunders when Probate granted her the Estate.  Gerald's Austrian born mother Hedwig had died in 1909.  It appears 2nd brother Edgar was in US and I can't find a record of Herbert serving, so he may have been abroad too.

I made another attempt to take pictures of the stone panels, including Lt Levenstien and will send the photos to Tony if the light is ok, but I think they're poor.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: PhilipG on June 06, 2014, 08:18:27 PM
Tim,
Very interesting.   I take it the memorial in Flers is still as impressive?  Cheers, Philip.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: Tim Bell on June 06, 2014, 09:25:19 PM
Hi Philip,
The 41st Div Memorial is certainly impressive, although the rain was too heavy and my brother had run out of patience walking/swimming around factory corner to convince him to stop.

T
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: Tim Bell on June 24, 2014, 09:19:03 PM
When visiting IWM North I noted 'The Register of Enemy Aliens' in Salford as below. 

If anyone has access to this document, or the Manchester Register I'd be interested to hear if there is a reference to my great uncle Ernest Auguste Frederick Wissel born Hanover 1877 and married to my great Aunt Lily Grindley.  In 1911 my Grandad lived with them at 122 Greenheys Lane, Chorlton on Medlock.

I realise this is a long shot...

Tim
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: mack on September 13, 2017, 04:37:45 AM
7078 Oscar,philip blankenberger a 23yr old worker in a shipping warehouse enlisted on 3-9-1914 in the 16th manchesters,oscar and his four brothers were all born in Manchester,the sons of james+bertha blankenberger who were both german,oscar went to france with his battalion on 8-11-1915,on 19th april 1916 he was ordered to report to the 30th infantry brigade depot pending a return to England for discharge on the grounds that he was a german,he was ordered to report to the RTO at etaples railway station at 3.30pm on 22nd april and put aboard the train at 3.53pm,he was told to report to the OC Manchester regiment at southport,he was discharged from the army on 26 may because his services were no longer required,after his discharge he was put on munitions work at messrs stubbs of great ancoats.

Oscar changed his name to Philip whitehill by deed poll,in 1921 he wrote to the records officer at preston asking if they would inscribe his medals with his new name in order that he could show his children that he had served his country,but they refused.

Oscars character on discharge was described as reliable,trustworthy and a very respectable man,this was crossed out and replaced with"discharge because hes german".

Oscar lived with his wife and children at 80 Nicholson st,rochdale road,manchester.

these people shamed a good man into changing his name,they didn't trust him to carry on serving yet the damn fools thought he was reliable enough for munitions work ::)

mack
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: PhilipG on September 13, 2017, 08:04:47 AM
Mack,
Great research.  But what a sad story.   I see his name is recorded in the "Book of Honour".  He was in No. XV platoon of "D" Company.     PhilipG.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: charlie on September 13, 2017, 08:13:36 AM
A very sad story. I wonder what happened about his brothers Karl, Otto and Rudolf who were also of military age.

Charlie
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: Tim Bell on September 13, 2017, 01:19:34 PM
This story is very challenging to understand and even harder to judge.  I note Oscar had previous service in 8th Ardwick Territorials as Time Expired.
Title: Re: The Manchester German Community
Post by: Tim Bell on July 09, 2018, 05:43:44 PM
I visited Thiepval and Flers again this week and thought about Gerald Levinstein because of extended family connection with the German community. 

He had attended Pembroke College, Cambridge, where Capt. Madden was also an alumnii. His MIC indicates he served as a Private 609 with one of the Public Schools Battalions of the Royal Fusiliers before his Commission with 20th Manchesters on 6/4/15.  CWGC show Gerald as Attached to 17th from 26th Bttn.  He had married Dorothy Edwards of Grafton Street at St Savieur Parish Church on 25/10/15, aged 28 and resident at Prees Heath.  His brother Herbert was a witness.  Gerald's Estate was a significant sum of �27,661 when Probate was granted.  His previous address is noted as as Teddington.  Dorothy had remarried to Arthur Saunders when Probate granted her the Estate.  Gerald's Austrian born mother Hedwig had died in 1909.  It appears 2nd brother Edgar was in US and I can't find a record of Herbert serving, so he may have been abroad too.
I've latterly found that Gerald's brother Herbert took over the family chemical firm when his father died in 1916.  He then developed The Levinstein Process for the production of Sulfur Mustard - A rudementary form of Mustard Gas known as HS "Hun Stuff".  He later developed the chemicals and mass produced Mustard Gas in the US.  Herbert became a significant figure in the chemical industry, but summaries don't mention his contribution to the War Effort, not the loss of his brother at Flers.
All somewhat off-topic, but I hope others find this interesting.