The Manchester Regiment Forum

The Great War => 1914 - 1918 => Topic started by: GT on May 14, 2012, 12:55:56 PM

Title: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 14, 2012, 12:55:56 PM
I have in my possession a 1914/15 star belonging to a Wigan lad, 947 Cpl William Moss 1/5th Bn. He was KIA at Gallipoli, buried Redoubt Cem, Helles.

Does anyone know if any research has been done on the background of 1/5 Bn soldiers who died at Gallipoli. If not I will start off from scratch and build up a data base. Give me something to do other than go shopping with the missus at Morrisons, now the football season has ended.

Cheers

GT
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: Robert Bonner on May 14, 2012, 02:09:28 PM
GT.
That sounds an excellent idea.  I don't believe that anyone has tackled the Wigan battalion in that way before.  It should certainly help to keep you out of the supermarkets.
Robert
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 14, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
Hi Robert

If I get stuck I know where to find the experts for advice.

Graham
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: harribobs on May 14, 2012, 09:04:05 PM
Redoubt Cemetery
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 15, 2012, 12:19:56 AM
Ta harribobs thats a start.

GT
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 09:43:56 AM
1/5th manchesters buried or known to be buried in redoubt cemetery

pte 2169 william bennett,63 platt lane,wigan aged 18,miner blundells colliery
sgt 2032 2032 william fowler[C.coy]143 elliott st preston aged 49,DCM winner,SA war veteran,policeman
pte 2364 charles critchley,25 park rd chorley aged 22,bank clerk
pte 1584 john bolton 16 gilroy st wigan,cross,tetley+co,age 18
pte 1577 walter brindle,20 rothay st leigh aged 17,cotton worker,mather lane mill
2/Lt arthur,charles brook,helme edge,meltham,yorks,aged 30,jonas brook+bros[family firm]
pte 1406 john brown,11 baldwin st wigan,age 19,kirkless works
pte 1921 george carr,2 elizabeth st,wigan aged 35,miner,victoria colliery
pte 2415 joseph clitheroe,62 highfield rd,pendleton[transport section]age 18,student[C coy]
pte 1769 joseph dowd[C.coy],19 boundary st,wigan aged 17,shot by sniper,died 20min later,pony driver
pte 2007 peter harrison,7 william st wigan,aged 21,miner,mesnes pit worsley
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 09:56:07 AM
pte 1374 robert hesford,122 newton rd lowton aged 19,baker
pte 2389 eugene,daniel kelly,6 springfield st wigan aged 20,apprentice engineer at corletts of wigan
capt arthur,clive leech,worthington,parbold
cpl 947 william moss,3 ashursts yard,wigan,orrell colliery,age 45[B coy]
CSM 273 walter spencer,8 west bridgewater st,leigh,cotton mill hand,age 37
2/Lt thomas cartmel walker,23 gloucester rd,birkdale,aged 20 member of the walker family of pagefield iron works,wigan
pte 1807 john wilkinson,23 cross st leigh,bedford colliery,age 17
signaller 1562 william winstanley,4 highfield,pemberton aged 20,collier,pemberton colliery,he was capt woods messenger and was shot in the back while delivering a message,his pal pte turner helped to bury him
Lt george,sydney james,haigh vicarage,wigan,manager at wigan coal+iron company,aged 22
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 15, 2012, 12:43:52 PM
Thanks mack thats brilliant. You have got 947 William Moss's address as well, I can find him on the 1911 census now.

You never fail do you, exactly what records do you have at your fingertips, is it only info on casualties ? It's more than just CWGC or Soldiers Died in the Great War records.

Every so often I contribute to Past Forward, Wigan's local heritage magazine. I am writing a piece at present about my grandfathers great war time experience.

People are always inquiring about Gallipoli, saying my grandfather or great uncle served there. It's the same on the Wigan World website forum, but no one seems to have much detailed knowledge. I thought if I can do some research I can pass the word about the great Manchester Regt.

Thanks, I'll keep you updated.

Graham

 
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 03:27:08 PM
died on hospital ships and buried at sea.

pte 3181 john ashcroft,5 Johnson st,lamberhead green,age 21,pemberton colliery,HS formosa
sgt 360 richard baxendale,12 bridge st,tyldesley aged 30,miner,fletcher,burrows,HS formosa
pte 1656 joseph bolton,16 peter st leigh aged 20,miner woodend colliery,HS gascon
pte 1638 tom calderbank,8 mcdonald st wigan aged 21,flagger+slater,HS mauritania
pte 1458 oswald,clifford ditchfield,8 duke st wigan aged 26,miner,wigan coal+iron,HS soudan
pte 1896 robert,edward downham,25 field st wigan aged 19,apprentice coremaker,HS formosa
pte 1309 william duddle[C.coy]95 warrington rd wigan aged 20,miner,fell wounded on 4th june and brought in by his brother pte 1315 henry duddle also of C.coy of 39 kays houses wigan,
sgt 1415 edward horsfield,2 fox st eccles aged 20,quilt weaver,HS tunisian
pte 2640 harry jepson,285 billinge rd,pemberton aged 19,miner pemberton colliery,wounded in the back on 24th july,died on 27th july and buried by the ships chaplain the following day,HS gascon
pte 2509 henry parr,2 gregsons row,wigan rd,leigh aged 33,miner,priestners colliery,HS esmerelda
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 03:43:38 PM
two men died on reaching lemnos,both buried in east mudros cemetery.

pte 3414 john,william sumner,tighe cottage,flixton aged 21,cotton weaver,HS Dunluce castle
pte 2371 william,thomas talbot,67 bedford square,chapel st,leigh aged 31,miner Bedford pit,HS soudan
pte 1844 samuel lawton,12 birch grove eccles,aged 22,warehouseman

four men died at home

pte 1825 james duddy,10 leigh st,wigan aged 18,cotton tenter[wigan cemetery]plate layer,L+Y railway
pte 1958 james france,25 seed st,wigan aged 28,miner[wigan cemetery]miner
pte 556 maurice neale,102 oxford st,leigh aged 40,council labourer[leigh cemetery]died at st.georges hospital london of sickness,leigh corporation highways
pte 3793 robert stanley culshaw,1 moores buildings,frog lane wigan aged 39,didnt serve overseas,died in training[buried wigan cemetery on 19-8-15]miner
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 15, 2012, 06:03:23 PM
Thanks mack, it's snowballing now, have you got the other cemeteries as well. I have just started trawling through Lancashire Landing Cemetery on CWGC and found another six 5 Bn casualties.

Graham
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 06:50:14 PM
lancashire landing cemetery.

pte 2197 james boardman,22 william st,wigan,wigan coal+iron saw mills,age 45
capt frederick,seddon brown,mere oaks,standish,wigan aged 31,
pte 1523 ernest chadwick,22 grecian st,eccles,aged 21,calico bleacher
L/cpl 2512 arnold cheetham,13 gladstone rd eccles aged 19
L/cpl 1557 william davenport,107 northumberland st wigan aged 21,clerk w.e deakins
pte 2786 fred fisher,286 north rd Atherton,blakemore bolt works,age 23
pte 1956 albert graham,37 thursby rd,burnley aged 30,joiner wigan rolling mills
pte 1228 george halliwell,27 marsh lane wigan aged 32,mr arthur smith church st mill
pte 2404 henry hessey,44 kempeter st,lower broughton aged 30,motor man
pte 1298 albert,edward jones,91 selwyn st leigh aged 20,cable works
pte 1555 george jones[B.coy]4 trafford rd eccles aged 18,railway worker
pte 2740 edward madden,13 wigan rd,atherton,
pte 1688 herbert mason,3 fairhurst st,leigh aged 21,astley colliery
pte 1474 henry thomas[C.coy],32 deans rd swinton aged 21,worked at patricroft loco sheds
pte 639 robert houghton,108 scholefield lane wigan aged 37,wigan coal+iron slag yard
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 06:54:56 PM
lancashire landing cemetery

pte 1497 charlie rawlinson,78 barlow st patricroft aged 21,post office sorter
pte 2117 alfred rothwell.new carr farm,leigh,miner ackers+whitley+co,age 24[D coy]
pte 2278 herbert smith,52 paradise st,eccles aged 20,
pte 1266 george smith,45 bottling wood,wigan,age 21
pte 1290 richard,kellette sumner,56 dicconson lane wigan,aged 31,alexander pit
pte 2435 ralph duckworth,32 bridgewater st,newtown,aged 31,miner
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: nicko576 on May 15, 2012, 07:37:04 PM
Hi GT
I have been working on something for the 1/5th Manchesters. One day I will finish it.
This is what I have on Pte William Moss.
Private William Moss
Age: 45
Died: 4th June 1915
Cemetery: Redoubt Cemetery, Helles
William was a married man, living with his wife at 3 Ashursts Fold, Brook Lane, Lamberhead Green, Wigan. He was well known around the local area, he had previously served 21 years in the Royal Irish Rifles, and fought in the Boer War receiving the King’s and Queen’s South African medal with clasps. He also played for Pemberton Rugby Football Club. William had said he would rather die on the battlefield than down a pit, unfortunately this fatal preference was granted during the charge.
Check out a website I did about the local men of St Matthews in Highfield who are remembered on the memorial.
www.stmatthews1914-1919.yolasite.com. A couple of the men mentioned by Mack are on there.
rgds
Nick 
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: Robert Bonner on May 15, 2012, 07:39:42 PM
Graham.
It looks as if you are off to a flying start and we all look forward to the final result.
Robert
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 07:55:38 PM
twelve tree copse cemetery.

cpl 1291 charles acton,516 warrington rd wigan,aged 24,miner,maypole colliery
cpl 2673 george wilfred bickley,12 clay st,gorton aged 42,boiler maker
L/cpl 987 frank clay,170 bolton old rd atherton aged 22,miner,fletcher burrows
pte 3558 james cosgrove,52 walthew lane,hindley,att to mining coy RE,age 44
pte 1537 joseph daintith,84 manchester rd,leigh aged 21,miner Astley colliery
pte 2619 samuel robert hall,15 common lane,tyldesley aged 16,miner chantlers pit
pte 2097 albert harrison,116 hope st leigh aged 20,miner woodend colliery
pte 2341 john heaton,20 red st atherton aged 27,miner,nelson pit
pte 2372 charles heaton,20 red st atherton,aged 25,miner,astley colliery
L/cpl 979 john hilton,71 wigan rd Atherton[bugler]Astley+tyldesley colliery,age 21
pte 3129 william highton,36 bridgewater st,ince,miner duke pit,age 19
pte 1491 charles pratt johnson,59 baines ave irlam aged 21,boots chemists
pte 1444 william jarvis,18 moore rd,wigan,pemberton colliery,age 22
pte 2860 herbert keefe,22 barton st tyldesley aged 19,miner,pilkington pit
pte 991 reginald taylor,12 lindsay st wigan aged 25,miner,alexander pit[MG section]
sgt 1329 john williams,68 albert st newtown aged 22,walker bros iron works
pte 1875 john worthington,181 glebe st leigh aged 25,cotton piecer,body found by men of the 1/5th KOSB on 14th december 1915
pte 1282 frederick unsworth,56 bottling wood wigan aged 21,mesnes colliery worsley
pte 1449 robert boardman,16 windmill st leigh aged 19,apprentice painter
pte 1933 thomas dean,68 school st,wigan,body found by men of 1/5th KOSB on 14-12-15,he and pte worthington were both buried by the rev francis,st clair goldie on 16th December,age 18
pte 1830 arthur johns,10 railway st,ince aged 29,labourer garswood hall colliery
pte 3004 richard,thomas priestley,206 mee green lane wigan aged 17,wigan coal+iron
pte 2952 joseph rocks,35 adelaide st wigan aged 23,pony driver park lane colliery
cpl 2023 samuel stockton,6 foy st wigan aged 30,goods shunter,DCM,goods shunter
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 08:25:08 PM
died in hospital cairo.

pte 1984 ernest william claxton,2 ann st,chapel lane wigan aged 26,garswood hall colliery

died in hospital alexander

pte 1691 clifford bowden,74 cromwell rd patricroft aged 19
pte 2231 charles,herbert cragg,4 haigh rd wigan aged 21,branch pit
pte 2116 joseph dean,24 alfred st,tyldesley,aged 25,miner
pte 2910 james gregson,12 yates st wigan aged 18,miner,walthem house colliery
pte 1579 luke murphy,60 school st,wigan aged 19,douglas bank north pit
pte 1950 thomas rooney,town green,aughton ormskirk aged 33
CQMS 1004 josiah millington tickle[B.coy],2 acton st wigan aged 29,clerk wigan coal+iron
pte 2785 thomas tither,15 mabel st,bolton aged 18,fletcher burrows
pte 2342 thomas sweeney[D.coy],28 lord st,hindsford aged 29,miner
pte 2065 william mcdonald,205 upholland rd wigan aged 22,miner,low green colliery
pte 1811 john,william rhodes,19 leigh rd atherton aged 19,miner,fletcher burrows
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 15, 2012, 09:23:44 PM
Thanks mack

Inundated is the word at present :)
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 09:39:55 PM
Thanks mack

Inundated is the word at present :)
hiya graham.
the info is there for you to use at your leisure.

mack ;D
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 15, 2012, 09:43:34 PM
Hi Nick,

Thanks for the info.

I have had a look at your website, well done, its well worth a visit. I don't know how I have not come across it before. Are you living in Wigan still?

With your permission I have borrowed the write ups of the Manchester lads and the photos of Harry Jepson and William Winstanley.

I guess I will be spending some time at the History Shop in Wigan looking at back copies of the Wigan Observer for 1915.

They certainly bred em tough in them days didn't they. William Moss was 45 years old and still running around a battlefield. I was a regular soldier myself but I would struggle at that age. I have his 14/15 star, I will have to put him on the watch list for the rest of his medal group.

Regards

Graham
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 15, 2012, 09:58:43 PM
You have just saved about 6 months work mack, you are promoted to Major General. Take a bow  ;)
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 15, 2012, 11:04:44 PM
hiya graham.
i will be adding a couple of names that i missed,onto the cemetery posts.

mack ;D
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 16, 2012, 04:45:48 PM
Thanks mack,

I have picked the new names up

Graham

Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: nicko576 on May 16, 2012, 08:31:49 PM
Graham
Thank you for the comments about the website, I must say it would not have been possible without the help of this web site, in particular Mack and Harribobs. I have been working on a book for about 3 years now, but i do not get as much time as i would like, however i do get to the history shop now and again.
I suggest that if you go to the new library, there is a book by a local author called Fred Holcroft (sadly no longer with us.) called Just like hell, it is about local men at Gallipoli.
I do have a lot of info about Gallipoli so let me know if you need anything
rgds
Nick
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 17, 2012, 12:38:32 AM
Hi Nick,

I bought Fred's book about Gallipoli years ago, I have been looking all over the house but can't find it. I wanted it as a reference for this project . I used to like reading his stories in the Past Forward magazine.

You mention the war diaries on your website, were did you get that info from, off here ? I didn't think any had been written on
the 1/5th Bn, I could do with some detailed info for my grandfather in 1917 on the Western front, as well as Gallipoli.

Regards

Graham
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 17, 2012, 03:31:39 AM
Graham
Thank you for the comments about the website, I must say it would not have been possible without the help of this web site, in particular Mack and Harribobs. I have been working on a book for about 3 years now, but i do not get as much time as i would like, however i do get to the history shop now and again.
I suggest that if you go to the new library, there is a book by a local author called Fred Holcroft (sadly no longer with us.) called Just like hell, it is about local men at Gallipoli.
I do have a lot of info about Gallipoli so let me know if you need anything
rgds
Nick
why dont you both work togethor on the book,the forum will help with whatever they can.

mack ;D
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: Robert Bonner on May 17, 2012, 10:05:34 AM
Graham.
Unless you have already done so, you must go to the Wigan Local Studies Library in Leigh Town Hall and look at the mountain of information written in the 1950's by the late George Derbyshire of the 5th Battalion.

      A Wigan Military Chronicle.             
 Unpublished typescript in 5 volumes. 5th Battalion and others. Copies in the Imperial War Museum, Wigan Local Studies Library (Ref D/DZ A16) and the Lancashire County Record Office.

As it is only a small facility you have to telephone the Local Studies beforehand to make an appointment.

Robert
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 17, 2012, 11:24:37 AM
died in hospital malta.

pte 2621 john calderbank,61 poolstock lane,wigan,age 29,colliery brakesman


pink farm cemetery.

pte 2523 thomas carey,137 ellesmere st,patricroft,age 28[Ccoy]
pte 1911 thomas horrocks,10 Stanley square wigan,died of peritonitis,west leigh colliery,age 34
cpl 2329 joseph mulrooney,85 hope st,leigh aged 19,card tenter,butts spinning co
capt francis,arthur james,haigh vicarage wigan,vice principal at colvin talugdars school,lucknow,aged 29,previously wounded in july 1915,brother of Lt g.s james[buried in redoubt cemetery]
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: mack on May 17, 2012, 11:56:58 AM
hiya graham.
if you search the forum under the thread,recovery of dead manchesters,theres a post about ptes t.dean and j.worthington.
the Lt from the 16th DLI laurence,talbot lisle foster,whos body was also recovered,was attatched to the 1/5th when he was killed

theres a obituary for this officer in the de ruvigny roll of honour,also for captain james and his brother,plus photos,one of the gang may post these for you.

mack ;D
Title: Re: 1/5 Bn Gallipoli
Post by: GT on May 17, 2012, 02:41:56 PM
ok mack, I will look for the thread. Your comments about the book are worth considering after I have completed this project.

Robert, thanks for the info on George Derbyshire. I have been to Leigh Archives before, I will put it on my to do list.

Graham