The Manchester Regiment Forum

Other Manchester Regiment Queries => All Other Manchester Regiment Queries => Topic started by: George28 on January 18, 2011, 09:32:38 AM

Title: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: George28 on January 18, 2011, 09:32:38 AM
Hello
I discovered this forum when I was trying to find out about Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin. I  am helping to transcribe parish registers for  the Lancashire Online Parish Clerk Project (www.lan-opc.org.uk), and I found Willoughby's marriage in 1888 at Hurst. I wonder if someone can help me decipher what is written under occupation? I can see Lieut. ? ? Manchester Regt. Thanks.
Gill
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: Bob.NB on January 18, 2011, 09:53:27 AM
Gill,
Looks to me like a shortened form of "Lieutenant, Her Majesty's Manchester Regiment."
The 1st Battalion Manchester Regiment moved to Tipperary in April 1888 so this would tie in.

Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin:
Lieut. Manchester Regiment 10 May 1882,
Adjt. 18 Apr 1888 - 18 Apr 1892,
Capt. 17 Jan 1892,
Maj. 7 Apr 1900,
Brev. Lt-Col. 6 Jan 1904,
Brev. Col. 20 Nov 1907,
Col in the army 7 Dec 1909.

Bob B.
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: George28 on January 18, 2011, 10:00:22 AM
Thanks Bob for your quick reply.
Gill
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: Wendi on January 18, 2011, 11:19:40 AM
Hi George and Welcome to our Forum  ;D

Just wanted to say a "Thank you" for the grand work you and your fellow volunteers do.

Wendi  :)
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: George28 on January 18, 2011, 12:19:29 PM
Hi Wendi
I'll pass the thanks on. Transcribing is such an addictive hobby-not work at all. You find all sorts of interesting things in  old registers. Willoughby had such an illustrious career.
Gill
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: Wendi on January 18, 2011, 12:37:51 PM
.......sorry "Gill" !

He was in Canada in WW1 he has a MIC showing him as being if the Dept. of Militia & Defence Ottawa Ont. Canada, and died in 1925.  His death is registered in in Brentford, Middlesex, at the age of 65.

I couldn't do the transcribing, I'd want to know the background on every one I came across  ;D

Wendi  :)
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: grimmy on January 18, 2011, 12:48:44 PM
I'd like to second the thanks to the good people at OPC.

Brilliant work - and Lancashire leads the way  :)
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: tonyrod on January 18, 2011, 03:15:49 PM
a little update care off,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willoughby_Gwatkin


Sir Willoughby Gwatkin
11 August 1859 – 2 February 1925 (aged 65)
Allegiance    United Kingdom
Canada
Service/branch    British Army
Canadian Militia
Canadian Air Force
Rank    Lieutenant-General
Commands held    Chief of the Canadian General Staff
Battles/wars    World War I
Awards    Knight Commander of the Order of St Michael and St George
Companion of the Order of the Bath

Lieutenant-General Sir Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin KCMG CB (11 August 1859–2 February 1925) was a British Army officer who served as Chief of the General Staff of the Canadian Militia during the First World War.

The son of a barrister, Gwatkin was born in Twickenham, Middlesex, and was educated at Shrewsbury School, King's College, Cambridge, and the Royal Military College, Sandhurst.[1] He was commissioned into the Manchester Regiment in 1882. In 1905 he was posted to Canada as a staff officer and in 1907 he returned to Britain to attend Staff College and was promoted Colonel. In July 1913 he was appointed Chief Staff Officer, Canada, the first to be appointed by the Dominion Government instead of by the British War Office. In 1916 he was given the temporary rank of Major-General. He retired from the Army in 1920 and was allowed to retain the honorary rank of Major-General. He then served as Inspector-General of the Canadian Air Force until 1922 with the rank of Air Vice-Marshal. In this role he provided advice and guidance to Air Commodore Arthur Tylee, the Air Officer Commanding the Canadian Air Force. In 1922 Gwatkin was promoted honorary Lieutenant-General in the Canadian Militia Reserve of Officers.

Gwatkin was appointed Companion of the Order of the Bath (CB) in 1916, Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George (CMG) in 1918, and Knight Commander of the Order of St Michael and St George (KCMG) in January 1920.[2] In July 1924 he was appointed Honorary Colonel of the Manchester Regiment
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: Robert Bonner on January 18, 2011, 03:38:18 PM
What a chap!
When the 3rd(Line)Battalion of 1900/1906 was in process of disbandment Colonel WG Gwatkin, Director of Operations and Staff Duties Canadian Militia, and formerly of the Manchester Regiment, arrived with the battalion, then stationed in Guernsey.  He had War Office authority to enlist men for the Canadian Military Forces and 120 men of the disbanded battalion volunteered for service in the Royal Canadian Regiment. This was the first instance of men of the Imperial forces transferiing to the Canadian.

An interesting event, particularly when you read our earlier discussions in the forum about the Halifax 100 of 1938/9 who made the same journey - but in reverse.

Robert
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: grimmy on January 18, 2011, 04:34:25 PM
His father-in-law was Alexander Butler Rowley JP. Born Manchester 3-10-1837,  died Dover 9-1-1911. Mill owner, solicitor and Justice of the Peace.

Played cricket for Lancashire and was President of Lancashire County C.C. from 1874 to 1879.

Deputy Lieutenant for the County of Lancashire. Hon. Colonel of the 3rd Volunteer Battalion of the Manchester Regiment.
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: Wendi on January 18, 2011, 05:35:44 PM
Look what you started Gill !!

Fascinating ........

Do we know if he had any ofspring?

Wendi  :)
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: George28 on January 19, 2011, 10:00:12 AM
Hi Wendi and everyone else who replied,
In 1901 Willoughby was living with his widowed mother Louisa and 2 of his sisters in Mortlake Surrey. 
There is no sign of his wife Ellen (nee Rowley), and he is listed as single, occupation Major. Also in the same house is Elizabeth Rowley from Lancashire, visitor, married. It doesn't look like he had any children then.
Getting sidetracked from transcribing is what makes it so interesting. You find out about local and world history, not to mention looking at old maps, jobs etc, etc!
Gill
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: grimmy on January 19, 2011, 10:04:44 AM
Several offspring:

Oldham Whittaker Rowley (d.Hove, Sussex, 1952) was a flower grower in Jersey.
Helen Elizabeth Rowley married Ernest Henry Ainslie, barrister, of Windermere.
Constance Mabel Rowley (b.1872  d.3-1-1952) married Ralph Anstruther Henderson (b.29-10-1859  d.13-1-1939). Their son was Brigadier Ralph Anstruther Compton Henderson (b.5-6-1891 d.10-5-1970) who I think was author of The Art of Reconnaissance.
Alexander Butler Rowley was an 'Agent' who spent some time in India.
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: grimmy on January 19, 2011, 10:09:27 AM
Sorry - the above were the offspring of Alexander Butler Rowley  ::)

Just ignore me  :-[
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: grimmy on January 19, 2011, 12:55:57 PM
Shouldn't we be looking for Edith Campbell Gwatkin (nee Rowley), b.1870?
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: tonyrod on January 19, 2011, 01:22:45 PM
sorry grimmy , minds gone blank, ;D to many pain killers i will delete my last post,
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: George28 on January 19, 2011, 01:34:01 PM
Sorry I typed 'his wife Ellen' but meant to say Edith.
Gill
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: grimmy on January 19, 2011, 01:51:39 PM
S'ok folks, I goosed it up in this thread too.

It was amusing to see the name change with each post though - wonder who we would have ended up with in the end  ;D
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: Wendi on January 19, 2011, 01:57:51 PM
I'm still trying to work out what kinda transcription Ancestry have given her  ;D
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: tonyrod on January 19, 2011, 02:32:05 PM
ok, my heads back on, ;D she married again in 1896 to either saunders or waterer. no subscription to view,



Marriages Jun 1888   (>99%)     
Gwatkin    Willoighby Garnons        Ashton    8d   655    
ROWLEY    Edith Campbell         Ashton    8d   655


Marriages Dec 1896   (>99%)         
Gwatkin    Edith Campbell        Brentford    3a   226   
Rowley    Edith Campbell         Brentford    3a   226    
SAUNDERS    Arthur Henry    Brentford    3a   226   
Waterer    Charles         Brentford    3a   226    
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: grimmy on January 19, 2011, 03:28:58 PM
Nice one tonyrod - it was Charles Waterer, stock jobber, of 66 Burnaby Gardens, Chiswick (1901).

Two daughters: Edith C. (?Campbell) b.c.1896 and Sybil R. (?Rowley) b.c.1898.

Edith senior died 1955 in Surrey.

So she and Willoughby Gwatkin must have been divorced  :(
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: Wendi on January 19, 2011, 05:40:06 PM
Yup !  There is a file at The National Archives dated 1896:

"Divorce Court File: 17590. Appellant: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin. Respondent: Edith Campbell Gwatkin. Co-respondent: Charles Waterer. Type: Husband's petition for divorce [hd]. "

Amazing ~ not at all what you would have expected !

Wendi  :)
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: grimmy on January 19, 2011, 05:44:37 PM
So Charlie was dipping his bread while the old man was away  :-*

Nothing new under the sun  ;)
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: George28 on January 19, 2011, 06:21:34 PM
What an amazing trail of stories! I only wanted to find out what a couple of scribbles in the marriage register stood for!  Thank you so much :D
Gill
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: tonyrod on January 19, 2011, 07:20:52 PM
  gill thats the reason we do what we do , we never know whats going to turn up next,
well done everyone  ;D  tonyrod

my family site.. http://tonyrod.webs.com/
Title: Re: Willoughby Garnons Gwatkin
Post by: grimmy on May 24, 2011, 03:32:44 PM
For completeness, here's a pic of the man himself: