The Manchester Regiment Forum

Other Manchester Regiment Queries => All Other Manchester Regiment Queries => Topic started by: Bird on June 12, 2010, 01:44:01 PM

Title: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Bird on June 12, 2010, 01:44:01 PM
Hi all

Further to my previous post, I now have my grandfather service number - does anyone know how I can trace his army record with this, although I don't have his date of birth yet?

He was a private in Manchester 6th Batallion Regiment the date I don't know but was still serving when he married my grandmother in 1920. His address is shown as Hartshead Barracks.

Any help anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated please.

Pete
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Wendi on June 12, 2010, 09:38:39 PM
Hi Pete !

First thing to check would be to see if he has a Medal Index Card.  1920 is right on the boarder line of Service Records released to The National Archives and those still with the MOD.

It might be worth applying to http://www.veterans-uk.info/ to see if his record is still with the MOD, but there is a fee and you have to have a copy of his death certificate.

Wendi  :)
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Bird on June 15, 2010, 04:15:39 PM
Thanks Wendi

Unfortunately I do not know the date of birth (circa 1895) or date of death (after 1925) of my Grandfather I keep obtaining (at an expense) copy birth certificates that are not my grandfather. I only know his father's name (my great grandfather) was called Edwin Bird, so until I obtain a birth certificate for Samuel Bird whose father is Edwin Bird, I'll just have to keep searching.

I was hoping that by having his army service number, rank and regiment might have helped?

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to reply.

Pete
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: themonsstar on June 15, 2010, 09:35:25 PM
Hi Pete

Can you post his service number.


Cheers Roy
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Bird on June 29, 2010, 10:24:50 AM
Hi Roy

the number looks like No90164, he was a private in Manchester 6th batallion regiment and stationed at Hartshead Barracks in July 1920.

Any help you offer would be greatly appreciated.

Pete
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: migky on June 29, 2010, 10:31:53 AM
Name: Samuel Bird
Regiment or Corps: 1st/5 Royal Warwickshire Regiment1st/5 Royal Warwickshire Regiment, Manchester Regiment
Regimental Number: 6045, 201757, 90164
 
Taken from his medal card.

Have you got an area where he was born/lived & died, it would help. ?
You say his father's name was Edwin Bird, where did this info come from? If it was on Samuel's wedding certifcate, what was Edwins occupation. The more details you post the better the chance of finding his birth/service records.

Migky ;)
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: migky on June 29, 2010, 11:19:49 AM
Just found this and take it it is the same family you are talking about.
Migky  ;)

Quote
Samuel Bird born approx 1895, married Annie Elizabeth Burman 10/07/1920 in Ashton-under-Lyme, they had 3 children, Harry, Violet and Charles. Was a private in the Manchester 6th Battalion regiment based at Hartshead Barracks when they married. Samuels father was called Edwin Bird, a sawyer or lawyer. Nobody knows what happened to Samuel Bird. Any help would be appreciated PLEASE!
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Bird on June 29, 2010, 12:12:09 PM
Hi Migky

Yes that's the same family.

Where did you find these details please?

"Name: Samuel Bird
Regiment or Corps: 1st/5 Royal Warwickshire Regiment1st/5 Royal Warwickshire Regiment, Manchester Regiment
Regimental Number: 6045, 201757, 90164
 
Taken from his medal card."

Do I understand this is a different regiment, as on the marriage certificate it does state the 6th batallion Manchester regiment?

Thanks for reply, which is much appreciated!

Pete

Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: migky on June 29, 2010, 12:36:46 PM
Hi, the 6th batallion Manchester regiment would be the regiment he was in at the time of his marriage.
I found those details on this site:  http://www.familyhistory.uk.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/ (http://www.familyhistory.uk.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/)
You did not give me any more details to play with, so i am just trying to find anything that matches your man with the details you gave and the ones i found.

1911 i found living at 7 Middlewood grove, Openshaw. Manchester ( this is a small street just off Besemere street, Gorton/Openshaw )
Head of the house hold
Edwin Bird born 1859 ish. Trade Wood sawyer in an Engineering works.
Johannah Bird Wife  born 1861 ish
Samuel bird son born 1891 ish Pawnbroker manager
Harry Bird son born  1894 ish Baker
Margaret Sarah born 1895 ish erand girl
Annie Bird born 1897 ish erand girl
Joseph Bird born 1899 ish @ school
John Robert Bird born 1903 ish @ school


Migky  ;)
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: migky on June 29, 2010, 12:55:56 PM
where & when did your samuel die?
Migky  ;)
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Bird on June 29, 2010, 01:08:32 PM
Hi Migky

Thanks for all your help which is appreciated. Sadly I have no idea when Samuel Bird died and the details I have are listed on this forum. All I know from the marriage certificate is that he was aged 25 in July 1920 when he married my grandmother. Nobody in our family has any idea what happened to him, his youngest child was born approx 1925 and my grandmother re-married (we think) and had another son in 1935 with my "step-grandfather". So he seems to have disappeared between 1924 to 1934. I do know his father was called Edwin and you may have found him, as a distant relative also found the same information. I have asked the GRO to search for his birth certificate and are still awaiting to hear from them. Hopefully this birth certificate will help? I just thought by tracing him through the army might help, that's why I came to this forum.

Any idea's you may have would of course be appreciated further.

Thanks

Pete
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: migky on June 29, 2010, 01:38:55 PM
This is a tricky one as nothing i have posted can be proved they are the same family?
The family i found on the 1911 are buried in Gorton cemetery, well Johanna/Edwin and Samuel are.
All in the same grave. Church of England section, grave number J270
Johanna died Dec 1912 age 52 and still residing at the Middlewood grove address. Buried on 18th Dec 1912.
Edwin died Jun 1937 age 79 and residing at 123 Moorfield avenue, Denton. Buried 8th June 1937.
Samuel died Jun  1962 age 72 residing Gorton.

Migky  ;)
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: migky on June 29, 2010, 01:46:00 PM
What address's do you have for any of the children's births?

Migky  ;)
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Bird on June 29, 2010, 03:21:05 PM
Hi

Do you mean Samuel Bird's children? If so, my father, Harry born in 1920 was resident at Metheringham Fen near Lincoln, then moved to Helpringham near Sleaford, his sister, my aunt Violet lived most of her life at Helpringham as well. The youngest, my uncle Charles was shot down during WW2 over Germany.

Thanks again....

Pete
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: george.theshed197 on June 29, 2010, 07:06:23 PM
My two penn'orth,
Annie Elizabeth Burman appears to be  the d/o Frederick and Sarah Burman, born 1896 Metheringham, Lincolnshire. 1911 - RG14PN19711 RG78PN1181 RD418 SD1 ED14 SN74

An Edwin Bird, b. 1869, Old Hill Staffs.(Assistant Overseer and Rates Collector - 1911) married one Ellen Hodgetts, b. Cradley, Worcestershire, 1870, Jun qtr. 1896 at Dudley, 6c : 117.
A son Samuel was born 1898 at Cradley.

Could this be the connection to the Warwickshire Regiment?
George.
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Bird on June 29, 2010, 07:18:56 PM
Hi George

Annie Elizabeth Burman you mention was my grandmother and I have her details. What are the numbers etc you quote though?

The Edwin Bird you mention could be my great grandfather, I just don't know. What I do know though is on my grandparents marriage certificate it gives Edwin Bird's occupation as Sawyer or Lawyer (can't read whether it is a "S" or "L"). I have searched all the Edwin and Samuel Bird's I could find, but there is no way of knowing whether they are the ones I'm looking for. I'm pinning my hopes on obtaining my grandfather's birth certificate and hope this will help research further.

Many thanks for you "two penn'orth" worth George, which is much appreciated.

Regards
Pete
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: george.theshed197 on June 29, 2010, 07:36:48 PM
Hi Pete,
That is the identifiation Number of the 1911 census on which the family of Annie Elizabeth can be found.
Will continue the search tomorrow.
George.
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: mack on June 30, 2010, 08:10:12 AM
in 1891 samuel was at his granmother susan birds address,she was a shopkeeper at 172 hamilton st,harpurhey,his father edwin was a sawyer
in 1901 edwin+joanna and 10yr old samuel were living at 41 pickering st,harpurhey
and in 1911 they were living at 11 middlewood grove,openshaw/gorton
the same samuel bird died in 1962 aged 71,and buried with his parents at gorton

the samuel who married annie in 1920 is over 4yrs younger than this man,BUT he may have been lying about his age,both to his wife+the registrar,this may be the reason why theres trouble finding the correct birth certificate.

there doesnt appear to be a marriage for annie to mr woolhouse,but they had a son togethor in 1935 at sleaford,his name was robin woolhouse

mack ;D
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Bird on July 09, 2010, 06:24:12 PM
Hi all

Many thanks for all your replies and hopefully I should have Samuel Bird's birth certificate shortly.

Assuming this is the correct one, any suggestions how I go about tracing his brothers and sister(s) and then their children? The reason being, is that no one knows what happened to Samuel Bird and if it is that he died in 1962 as one of the earlier posts suggests, I hopefully might be able to trace someone who would possibly be able to fill in his life from 1920 to the day he died?

Any pointers would again be very much appreciated.

Regards
Pete
Title: Re: Search for my grandfather Samuel Bird
Post by: Wendi on July 09, 2010, 09:16:59 PM
Hi Bird !

It is of course possible that he did not marry.  Being buried with his parents is one indication.  Perhaps obtaining any record that Gorton have on the burial may give an indication ???

You could also look for his will.  This might also give an indication of his past life.

The 1911 Census shows only one brother.  To trace any further you really would need to hunt down his marriage and trace issue of that union.

Wendi  :)