1880 - 1910 Uniforms Privates & NCO

[Northgate1899]

Dear All

I am researching the dress uniform of the 1st Battalion when they were stationed in Ireland from about 1880. I have found lots of postcards on the web and on flebay which depict different cuff details and would like some clarity before I start painting the company of 1:32 soldiers I have cast in white metal.
Attached are a couple of examples which illustrate two different white cuff details and attributed to the Manchester Regiment. I would be grateful for any information on the Uniform of the 63rd / 1st Batt while stationed in Ireland.

Regards

Chris

[Bob.NB]

A couple more images:

[Bob.NB]

including this one:

[Northgate1899]

Bob.NB

Thank you for the illustrations on the cards, but they have different white cuffs. One is a straight white band and the other all I can describe it as is a bit star trek with a point facing up the sleeve. I unsure if one is a walking out order of dress and the other ceremonial. If you have any pointers into the differences and which order of dress is which it would be greatly appreciated.

Iv been buying a few odds and ends off flebay to fill my sketchbook.

[charlie]

Chris,
In the Regiment image library there is a photo circa 1890 depicting the various forms of dress, ie walking out dress, service dress, full dress, battle dress and officer full dress. A further search may reveal more useful photos.

Type in MR00249 in the free text search box

http://www.manchester-regiment.org.uk/index.php

Charlie

[Northgate1899]

Charlie

Thank you for your reply and posting me in the right direction. The photo illustrated a straight white cuff and red epaulets with the officer having something fancy. The caption for the photo posts 4th Volunteer Battalion, was there any variation between battalions and dates 1880 - 1900.
I have close to the first 200 soldiers cast and primed ready to paint, it would be a bit of a bugger if I got it wrong. Im hoping replicating the 1st battalion on parade (perhaps Limerick Barracks, archive photos MR00020, MR00039) with a scaled backdrop.

[charlie]

Chris,
I am not an expert on uniforms, or on anything else for that matter, but after a bit of digging it appears that pointed cuffs were abolished in 1881 with the reforms. They remained straight till 1902 when they became pointed again. Cross referencing the photos of the 4VB Bn and the 1st, white facings and scarlet epaulettes are correct for the period.

The Victorian Wars Forum has a dedicated area for uniforms etc. It might be prudent to ask the same question there. There are also the Regimental Archives in Ashton.

http://victorianwars.com/index.php?sid=8b0ce5f3a3feea21bf18983ea6fa5801

Charlie

[Northgate1899]

Charlie

Thank you again for your advice. I will paint a straight white facing to the cuffs and scarlet epaulettes in accordance with the earlier photo you posted. The officers and senior NCOs something fancy with pointed detail and gold braid. I have ordered a book from the museum on Ashton Barracks so the scale model may be based on the parade square and surrounding buildings of Ladysmith Barracks. This is a long term plan to cast a Battalion on parade and recreate one of the old photos.

Thank you again for your help, very much appreciated.

Chris
 

[susanjane]

My 'blog' on this forum about my grandfather John ALDRED of Flixton has many photos. Black and white, of course. I was told that his dress uniform as a VB sergeant in 1905 would have been dark green.It might be worth looking at that.

Sue

[Robert Bonner]

Chapter 29 of Wylie's History of The Manchester Regiment (Regular Army Battalions) consists of notes on Uniform, Colours & Badges etc. The following extracts may be of help.

1881.     On the introduction of the Territorial System, as an English regiment both regular battalions were ordered to wear white facings.
The men's tunics had plain round white cuffs.
1896.     A scarlet serge patrol jacket was authorised for officers with white collar, cuffs and shoulder-straps. The cuffs were pointed, 5 inches deep in front and 2 inches behind.
1901.     The men's tunics had white pointed cuffs and collars; red shoulder straps edged white.

[Northgate1899]

I have been doing a bit or reading and found the following Re: Uniforms

'1880 Cardwell Reforms saw the abolition of numbered regiments and the amalgamation by pairs of old regiments to form new ones under territorial designations'.

'the opportunity was taken to rationalise multi-coloured regimental facings on tunics to a national basis: white for English and Welsh regiments, Yellow for Scottish, green for Irish regiments with Royal association retained blue'.

'The Lines blue helmet remained unchanged with centre star plates'.

'The tunics remained the same cut with Royal facings or new national colours for collar & cuffs'.

'The cuffs became round (jam pots) with no extra embellishment, the shoulder straps were plain scarlet. Officers kept their pointed cuffs with lace and braid according to rank'.

Paraphrase notes taken from: British Infantry Uniforms since 1660, By Michael Barthorp, p100, Dress 1881-1901

Plate image from: The Thin Red Line, Uniforms of the British Army 1751-1914, B.K Fosten

Bought Robert Bonner book on Ladysmith Barracks which I thoroughly enjoyed, but Im still on the hunt for a set of drawings, plans, elevations etc of Ashton barracks.