The Manchester Regiment Forum
World War 2 => 1939 - 1945 => Topic started by: NUMPTYLAD on October 18, 2014, 12:20:21 PM
-
My Dad, Raymond Douglas Wood, served with the 2nd Battalion in Singapore and was captured at the fall.
After the war he stayed with the Battalion and served in N Ireland, where he met my Mum, Emma Florence.
From there he went to Ladysmith Barracks and then of again to Malaya, Berlin and Minden.
I am trying to identify what medals he, potentially, would be entitled to as his were stolen sometime ago.
According to family, he was the rations Cpl in Minden, but I am not sure of any other jobs that he had.
Can you help?
-
You can get your dads Army record which will detail his medals see the Information and application form PDF files.
Cliff
-
Thanks for the first reply, I have already applied for his record from Glasgow, but have been informed that this could take 6 months. I have a time constraint, in that I want to try to get copies of the medals mounted and get them to my big brother in Australia in time for Anzac day.
-
Welcome to the forum. The 1st Battalion served in Singapore, not the 2nd.
For his service during the war your father will have been entitled to the 1939/45 Star, the 1939/45 War Medal and the Pacific Star. For his service in Malaya post-war he will have been entitled to the General Service Medal (KGVI) with clasp Malaya.
-
Allowing for the fact jhat as Bob has stated, the Bn was the 1st and it served from Day +20 with the 53 Welsh Div through from Arrormanche and the ultimate point of Goslar in the Hartz Mountains, then went to Wuppartal thence to Berlin in 1950 . A break in Chester (Saighton Camp) then onto Malaya - (May 1951 to 1954) from then to Formby and the Queen Mother's Parade and then across to Wavell Barracks , Berlin in August 1954, followed by Minden ( 1955 to 1957) then back to Formby for a short stay and ended up at Warley Barracks, Brentwood where it Amalgamated in Sept from where my service with it ended1958; it was only after the East African(Kenya/Bahrain)The King's Regiment ( no longer The Manchester Regiment) saw service in Northern Ireland,
Might I consider that your information above is somewhat confused, maybe based on the details given out by your father much later.
George.
PS. I am not challlngeling you father's service in Singapore and as a POW !!
-
Correction George. Numptylad is referring to the original battalion captured at Singapore in 1940. It was postwar that his father joined what we refer to as the 1st Battalion.
Sadly this is yet another example of a father not speaking about his military experiences.
-
Yes indeed Bob,
I agree BUT in my last paragraph I did say " Might I consider that you information above is somewhat confused, maybe based on the details given out by your father much later. The same thing restated by yourself above in a slightly different way.
George.
-
3528190 Pte Wood. RD. HQ Company. 1st Group Thailand. Enlistment date 2/7/1935 7/5. Father: Mr Wood 36 Cromwell Road, Eccles, Lancashire.
He will also have the GSM with Palistine Medal
-
He arrived in Port Said from Cyprus 28 November 1937 by S.S. Fouadieh a TroopShip.
-
Thank you Gentlemen for your information to date. It has shed a lot of light on matters that Dad would not speak about.
As for the GSM Palestine, would that be the the King George VI medal, for which he would also have the bar Malaya?
-
yes,
He most certainly was certainly entitled to the Clasp Malaya to his GSM for Palestine.
Meanwhile I have been trying to remember him in Berlin 54/55 - I should have known him because I too at that time was Barrack Accomodation and Married Quarters Sgt BUT the only Cpls in the Q.M's section that I can picture in my in my mind were Cpl Jones and Cpl Hamilton; in the Ration Section was Sgt 'Taffy/Yanto' Hughes and a couple of Pvts, Butchers if I remember,on lone from Sgt Watson(Cook Sgt).
George.
-
Thanks again George. from my recollection Dad was a Pioneer, but my brother who is 5 years older says he was rations.
We lived in Bastau Strasse, I revisited that when my Regiment 1RRF were based in Elizabeth Barracks in the 1980s.
As mentoned earlier, my Mum was Emma Florence. At that time there were 5 kids, myself and younger brother were born in Ladysmith Barracks. No1 sister was born in Kuala Lumpar, No2 sister was born at BMH Rinteln, then youngest brother was born in BMH Berlin.
-
Should point out that Bastau Strasse is Minden.
I am in contact with big brother in OZ to try to get some more details of Berlin.
-
Your father would also be entitled to the Defence medal for his service in the war.
Charlie
-
Now then my memory is stirring -
Can you remember any of the names of family's , children you went to school with in Berlin ? remembering Schafergrund ( Married Quarters next to the railway between The Stadium and the quarters and the Pichelsdorf Strasse - on the other side of Habicht Weg were the Qtrs of whatever Regiment was with us in Berlin - firstly the A & S.H and secondly The Cheshires. Now lad come on think hard please. To jog your memory maybe In the top right hand side, the largest families like Sgt George Wharmby ( Drums) ; Sgt Ted Widdowson (former POW like you father - also he was the Pioneer Sgt); in the vertical block below that were Betty and Normal Briggs, one of the sons was a fantastic pianoist who later would have been seen on TV in UK- that was also the Block that had the main Telephone,to contact Wavell Bks. Most of the W.O's and C/Sgts like RQMS Harry Emmots, The B.M. Firstly (Eggie) Spooner who left us and went to Canada, then replaced by Bentley; CSM Harry Jones, C/Sgt Jim and Gwen Standen was the main block on Habiicht Veg. Major Gardner and his family lived in the house opposite to the road Habicht Veg on the P.Strasse. Come on now please think hard and let us possibly find some more memories for you and also for us.
George.
-
Charlie,
Query your statement "... that your father would also be entitled to The Defence Medal..... ?
Wasn't that only for The UK - 1080 days - and certain other Overseas areas such as South Africa - 360 days operational and non-operational 180 days.
Therefore the lads in Burma and POW with the Japs would not receive it - surely.
George ??? ???
-
George, I was 3 or 4 during the time in Berlin. My Brother in OZ will be spoken to at length this weekend. He has more knowledge than me, so will get back to you as soon as I get more details.
-
Sorry for that but no problem, it happened occasionally when we are flying blind, am looking forward to hearing some of his comments, maybe he will have additional information.
George.
-
George. He would have the Defence Medal. These are the ones my father had and he went from the West Indies to the Middle East via a six hour stop in Southampton:
General Service Medal 1918-62 with clasps �Palestine�, �Malaya�; 1939-45 Star; Pacific Star; 1939-45 Defence Medal; 1939-45 War Medal; Long Service and Good Conduct Medal
Cliff
-
Charlie,
Query your statement "... that your father would also be entitled to The Defence Medal..... ?
Wasn't that only for The UK - 1080 days - and certain other Overseas areas such as South Africa - 360 days operational and non-operational 180 days.
Therefore the lads in Burma and POW with the Japs would not receive it - surely.
George ??? ???
George
I agree with you regarding the qualification times etc for the Defence medal. I can find no documentary evidence regarding time as a PoW and the Defence medal. However the Regimental museum medal collection contains several groups to 1st Bn soldiers taken at Singapore that contain the 39/45 Star, Pacific Star, Defence and War medals.
The qualification time for the 39/45 Star and Pacific star was altered - in the case of Singapore - to entry into theatre between 8.12.1941 and 15.2.1942 which was not normally the case. Was there some similar alteration to the general rules as regards POWs and the Defence medal?
The only explanation I can give as to the entitlement to the Defence medal is that Malaya - and I presume that it included Singapore - was classed as a Non-operational area closely threatened by air attack from 3.9.1939 to 7.12.1941 therefore allowing the soldiers to qualify for the Defence medal with 6 months service there prior to the invasion.
Perhaps one of our medal experts could provide clarification.
Charlie
-
Charlie,
Yes, I agree - it is another one of these debatable issues of WW2 details issues. I have asking around here ( Portsmouth - fatal) all matelots ;D ;D God Bless Them with similar mixed reports.
Hey ho - let it stay I reckon, they serve it.
George.
-
NumptyLad
Have you read this? https://www.gov.uk/the-ministry-of-defence-medal-office - the section "Replacement Medals" ?
Wendi
-
Hi Wendi,
The medals were stolen a long time ago and all had lost interest in them. I have my own medals, then big Bro in Oz said he wanted to try to get Dads medals. I have sourced copies of most, am chasing a GSM GVI with Palestine & Malaya bars, but am working on them.
-
George, Have had an email from Oz, Big Bro. He said that Dads best mate was someone called "Nippy Gannon". He aslo mentioned that they were the men who lowered the Flags at Ladysmith Barracks on the day that the Pay Corps took over. He is looking for some photos as are the other family members based locally.
-
By God lad,
You could'nt have given and mentioned a more well known name than Nippy Gannon; Nippy was the Officers Mess Silverman of the Battalion for something like twenty years and like all members of the unit I and everyone of us regarded Nippy as a great bloke.
I cannot make any comments regarding the information about "..lowering the Flags at Ladysmith Barracks" because the Pay Corps were never based in the Barracks other than possibly that maybe your brother could be confusing the fact that the Pay Corps were based further up from the Barracks right across the road.
Here's hoping that you brother can find the relevant photographs. I will have to rethink my mind now - if he was a mate of Nippy many more should have also known him. I will relook the Forum because some time back there was quite a lot of correspondence re Nippy's retirement party in Berlin.
George.
PS. Now I am embarrassed in the fact that I cannot remember your Dad because I was in the battalion whilst he was serving and yet cannot remember him !!!
-
Hi Folks
I vaguely remember a Cpl Woods,who was in the QMs dept,and in the pioneer section,this was during our time in Malaya,Cpl Woods was stationed at Butterworth,when the regiment went to Berlin in 54 Cpl Woods was employed in the QM's dept,when the regiment moved to Minden I recollect Cpl Woods being the rations storeman and his preparation of the 3 Ton ration truck(loading area being painting white)I left the Bn then on posting to the Army Mechanical Transport School at Borden Hampshire.I think I can remember Cpl Woods when I rejoined the regiment 2 years later.I think the RAPC did takeover Ladysmith Bks,I can never remember them in the Hero's of Waterloo,nice to see Nippy's name coming up again
-
Thanks again Roy,
That is the first time I have seen information that the RAPC had been stationed in Ladysmith Barracks. I remember than first at Pownall's on Stockport Road during WW2 and also seeing them billeted with my Auntie Nell and Uncle George on Plymouth Grove, Longsight ; primarily when I was first being introduced to them on my PYTHON leave on coming home from East Africa ,when uncle George H said that this is a proper Soldier ;D ;D and referred to them as "Pownall's Commando's" just to stir and anger the Sgt that was with them. ::) ::)
So theoretically I should have known him - as I was also on the QM's staff with Major Joe Flynn 1954 after coming back from Malaya.
George.
-
Have a photo of my Dad, from the dress this may have been taken in Singapore prior to the war.
He has a GSM at this stage, Palestine it would seem.
Hope I have attached this correctly.
-
There is a photograph in the regimental archives of 'The flag being lowered at Ladysmith Barracks'. It shows Lt-Colonel (Retd) GL (Bill) Usher & RSM Benson outside the officers mess whilst an unidentified soldier can be seen lowering the flag. The photograph can be seen by going to the archive website and opening Image Archive. Its reference is MRO3080. In case of difficulty just enter the word flag.
I think that it is more than possible that the soldier lowering the flag was Corporal Woods. By that time dear old 'Nippy' Gannon was certainly with the new battalion at Formby.
Extract from Ladysmith Barracks 1845 -1958: In the short term the barracks were handed over to the Army Pay Office (Officer's Accounts) pending the completion of their new headquarters on the old sports field.
-
The photograph of your father was most certainly taken in Singapore.
-
The end of an era,
I regret to say that even though I have looked and thought carefully at the photograph of your Dad I still haven't been able to call him to mind I am sorry to say. Yet he must have been in and around Wavell Barracks and also the Shcaffergrund Married Quarters region possibly as much as I was, somewhere I have one of the Souvenir Invitations given out by Roland Bardsley Homes inside of which is a full illustration of the landscaped areas around and over of the Archway of the old Ladysmith Barracks into the care of Tameside. M.B.C. on the 24th September 1988 beautifully renovated including a portion of the old wall.
George.
-
Hi George,re Nippy Gannon at Ladysmith Barracks closure ceremony,I don't think Nippy ever left the Bn on any posting,either the Manchester Regiment or The Kings and Manchester regiments,he took his discharge from N Ireland whilst seving with the regiment
-
Hi Roy,
If you see Bob's comment on the previous page you will note that he considers that it was possible that Cpl Wood was the one doing it as Nippy was back with the Battalion at Formby, sorry old friend.
George.
-
Hi all,
Seems I have been led on a wild goose chase. My Dad didn't take the flag down on the final day at Ladysmith, he took it down as the Bn were leaving to go off to Malaya.
Sorry about that, but as dates started to be mentioned it became apparent that the dates didn't tie up with where we were at the time, so the flag lowering must have been in 52/53, as my sister was born in Kuala Lumpur in Jan 54.
-
We left Berlin April 1951 and went to Dale,(originally part if us were at Saighton) Chester, I can remember it well because part way through my home leave we received a phone call to me at home, then Partington Lane, Swinton, M/cr., when my father then answered the phone it was asking for me, I was out so Dad took the message, it was from B Coy office and was advising me that I had to return to Camp tomorrow, the following day, for my inoculations as I was on the Advance Party with a party of the Bn. Cpls ,with OC being Capt. Moss , enroute to Singapore,leaving Southampton about end of Feb. information being 'possibly on to Hong Kong', and will be getting extra leave as Embarkation Leave.
On the 30th May 1951 the Bn. sailed from Liverpool on the troopship Empire Hallidale SO the Bn. Flag must have been taken down then either on the 29th or 30th May from The Guardroom or thereabouts at The Dale Camp, Chester.
"Arriving at Singapore in the early hours of 28th June and were played in by the Band of the Cameronians then embarked on transportation to Selerang Barracks in Changi. " - "quoted from Jungle Bashers".
OK. George.
PS. As I said in my first response - "I was confused by the dates" then ;D ;D ;D
-
My brother and I were born in Ashton at Ladysmith Barracks. Youngster was born in Nov 51, I was born in Oct 50. Then had sister 1 born in Jan 53 in Kuala Lumpur. Sister 2 was born in Berlin think that was 54 then youngest brother born in BMH Rinteln in 55, before we came back to UK as Dad was demobbed after 20+yrs. We went to a transit camp in Maghull then settled in Bury.
-
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but just found this article which was published in the Eccles Journal, 1945.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj249/shred67/shred67035/R-D-Wood.jpg)
-
"Shred"
The photo and article brought a tear to my eye.
Many thanks for this, the original photo I have hung in pride of place in my hall. This piece, however, is new to me and I will let all my family know where to see the piece, although I have, cheekily, copied it.
On the medal side, I managed to find out, via getting Dads records, so was able to source copies of the medals, which I took to give to my big brother, who wore them with pride at the Dawn Service on Gallipoli day in Dawesville W. Australia. I was also on parade with my own "gongs"
He has already earmarked them to go to his son as he "falls out"
-
Well at last the old brain-box has just kicked in - Lackri Woods never "cottened" on before - of course "Lackri"! I kept trying to think and eventually after all of these years; Nippy Gannon was the final connection. At last I have re-cognised him and all thanks to The Forum - yes indeed a right pair of characters - Lackri and Nippy - the final piece of the puzzle fis in after all these years.
Take care and may both of them Rest In Peace.
George.
-
As it was the question you posed in your original post, can I ask which medals he was entitled to.
Thanks
Charlie
-
He had the GSM for Palestine, pre war and Malaya. The Defence Medal. The 1939/45 Star, Pacific Star and War Medal. May have made a mistake on some, but will try to attach a photo of Medals attached to big Bro at the service in Dawesville. The second handsome chap with medals is me.
-
Had heard Dad mentioned as Lackri, but never thought of it at all for years till Sunday when having a chat with the Boss. As her Dad had been in the Pioneer Corps. Was trying to find out if her Dad had a nickname and Lackri came flooding back. Will have to figure out how to attach a photo so that the site can see what medals he was entitled to being worn by big Bro in Australia.
He remembered Nippy Gannon and told me a tale of Dad & Nippy being in London on a parade at about the time of the Coronation representing the Manchesters.
-
Yes indeed - They must have been part of the Colour Guard sent home for the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth 11 on tge 3rd June 1953 along with C/Sgt. H. Bellis, have tried to remember the Officers but without any success. They must have trained for that at Ladysmith Barracks sometime in May
.
I came home on Compassionate Leave on the QUANTAS Constellation Coronation from Singapore on the 1st June and landed at Heathrow about 1500 hrs then after Googe Street Transit Camp to change out of Mufti into B.D. began my epic transit to Manchester courtesy H.M. Constabulary right to 52 Partington Lane where we lived at that time.
Very many moons ago,
Cheers and take care.
George.
-
Close up of the medals :)
Timberman
-
Thanks for the detail, will make sure big Bro gets this info, as well as the remainder of the Wood tribe.