A place for PoW database amendments and additions

[Tim Bell]

Charlie,
Confused with this http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1688768/3/2/
Seems to be 8975 William Whittle from 17th Bttn, but strange number on record.

T

[charlie]

Tim,

The record does show 8975 which is correct. I agree the 9 does look odd, it looks to me as though the typist hit the "." key by mistake and then overtyped it. If you look at the fullstops elsewhere on the document they are very big in proportion to the numbers/letters and are big enough to distort the correct numeral.

Charlie

[mack]

And another mysterious one,  27701 Daniel Lunner 2/7th Bn, again nothing obvious in the MiCs.

http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/3100116/3/2/

Charlie

hiya Charlie.
he is 277101 Daniel sumner,21 Gladstone st,west gorton,2/7th battalion[from gorton absent voters register]

mack

[mack]

16287 Harry McCoombs 16th Bn:

http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/3151761/3/2/

I have tried McC*, MacC*, Mac* and 16* in the Manchesters MiCs and nothing. Has anyone any suggestions please.

Chharlie

your right with his name Charlie,harry mccoobs,26 golbourne st,wigan,A.coy,16th battalion

mack

[mack]

A Battalion please, if known, for 22271 Sgt Harry Lunn.
Thanks
Charlie

hiya Charlie.
act/sgt harry lunn was in the 23rd battalion,lived at 2 halstead ave,chorlton cum hardy,captured 27-1-18,he was posted to the 22nd manchesters on 2-5-18 while a prisoner,the 23rd were disbanded on 16th feb 1918.

mack

[mack]

battalion info for those already in the database.

2231.pownall.2/6th
2234.price.19th
2250.ranson.1/9th attatched to RE
2251.capt leonard Rathbone.17th
2260.bertram,stewart reece.12th
2270 2/Lt henry,tucker ringham.16th.captured spoil bank tunnel
2273.roberts.19th
2282.robinson.1/9th
2302.rowley.19th
2360.james,edward simpson.19th
2375.smith.A.coy,17th batt,14 Edward st,ashton
2386 spence,number is 31328,18th batt
2403 Stockton.17th
2410.stuttard.2/6th
2420.350887 Charles,arthur taylor.2/9th
2428.thos taylor.2nd
2434.thackwell.2/9th
2468.trow.20th
2508.351485 warberg.16th
2522.53 john webb.2nd
2525.welsh.2/6th
2542.john,ernest whitworth.18th
2556.williams.19th
2562.williamson.19th
2569.winterburn.19th
2584.worth.2/5th
2597,harold,appleby,tapp wyrill.19th
2602.york.12th
2604.young.24th

[charlie]

Mack,
Many thanks for all that, all updated
Sumner I would have never found in a month of Sundays, great stuff.
I guess Harry McCooms MiC has gone missing.

Chharlie

[mack]

Mack,
Many thanks for all that, all updated
Sumner I would have never found in a month of Sundays, great stuff.
I guess Harry McCooms MiC has gone missing.

Chharlie

I had trouble with the name when I was searching for his relative who was killed at Gallipoli with the 5th manchesters,there were too many ways of spelling the name,but I found him in the end,i,me to bleedin stubborn to give up Charlie.

if any become a pain to find,post them on here,and I will sort them out,trawling through all the red cross archive is a huge task,you don't want holding up trying to find mistranslations etc.

keep on going Charlie,your doing a brilliant job.

ps.your stark ravin mad taking on this database,but you have my respect,i have never come across a database of POWs for any regiment or corps,so yours will be the first complete one when its finished

mack

[charlie]

Thanks Mack,
Everything progresses much easier with all the help I get. To quote Capt Blackadder "who would notice another madman here" 

Charlie

[Tim Bell]

Tim,

The record does show 8975 which is correct. I agree the 9 does look odd, it looks to me as though the typist hit the "." key by mistake and then overtyped it. If you look at the fullstops elsewhere on the document they are very big in proportion to the numbers/letters and are big enough to distort the correct numeral.

Charlie

I grasp it now.  William doesn't seem to be on the database. He died in a German Hospital in Jeumont according to Soldiers Effects.
William Whittle Erquelinnes Communal Cemetery Lance Corporal 8975, 17th Bn., Manchester Regiment who died on 26 October 1918 Age 27 Son of William and Ann Whittle, of Manchester; husband of Ethel Whittle, of "Westleigh," Hazelbadge Rd., Poynton, Cheshire.

[charlie]

Tim, I'll add him to the database. There are probably something like 1500 - 2000 names still missing from the database.

Charlie

[mack]

pte 303431 William Johnson and L/Cpl whittle were both in C.coy 17th manchesters,they were captured together at hollebeke,both ended up in friedrichfeld camp,pte Johnson was supposed to have died of sickness 5 days before whittle and buried in erquelinnes cemetery[grave 77]however when the grave registration team began recording the graves in the cemetery,they scrubbed johnsons name off the list and recorded the grave as a unknown british soldier.

in the history of this cemetery,it says that there are 66 identified casualties,3 of these have a special memorial because the exact spot of their graves could not be found,theres no mention of any unknowns buried in the cemetery.number of burials 67.

the only grave not listed in the casualties in this cemetery is grave 77[johnsons]

according to the medal roll,johnson was disembodied on 28-3-1919.

one thing puzzles me,how did whittle+johnson end up at erquellines from friedrichfeld.

mack

[mack]

Tim,

The record does show 8975 which is correct. I agree the 9 does look odd, it looks to me as though the typist hit the "." key by mistake and then overtyped it. If you look at the fullstops elsewhere on the document they are very big in proportion to the numbers/letters and are big enough to distort the correct numeral.

Charlie

at the time of his death,L/Cpl whittle was living at 125 lightbowne rd,moston,he married ethel Morrison at holy trinity blackley on 7-1-18 while on leave,that was the last time she saw him.he was a fruit salesman.aged 26.born st.helens

mack

I grasp it now.  William doesn't seem to be on the database. He died in a German Hospital in Jeumont according to Soldiers Effects.
William Whittle Erquelinnes Communal Cemetery Lance Corporal 8975, 17th Bn., Manchester Regiment who died on 26 October 1918 Age 27 Son of William and Ann Whittle, of Manchester; husband of Ethel Whittle, of "Westleigh," Hazelbadge Rd., Poynton, Cheshire.

[charlie]

The whole thing puzzles me. If there are 66 identified burials and 67 graves how can there not be an unknown? PA43123 gives L/Cpl Whittle as being buried in grave 86, which according to the CWGC is Pte Herbert Stevenson. L/Cpl Whittle is according to the CWGC GRR in German grave 125. All the other grave numbers tally with the original German ones with the exception of 77. So where did grave 125 appear from as it is not listed by the Germans???

I take it then that Pte Johnson survived as he was disembodied and has no CWGC record.

One thing I can with 99% certainty explain, is how they ended up in Erquellines. There are two possible explanations, I think the second one is most probable:

1. They never arrived in Friedrichsfeld and were retained in the German echelon area, but registered in Friedrichsfeld. There is evidence to show that Limburg and Stendal were used just to register PoWs while they were elsewhere, but there is nothing as far as I am aware to connect Friedrichsfeld to this.

2. I had a look at some other PoW dead buried at Erquellines and couple stand out. Pte Henry Piggott of the Y&L is one of them. He appears on two lists of those who died, he is also listed in the same list as L/Cpl Whittle as being at Friedrichsfeld. PA43124 lists him just as being buried at Erquellines, the second one PA43134 states that his death was reported by the PoW collection and distribution centre Friedrichsfeld even though he died at a Field Hospital at Erquellines. This suggests to me that he was sent back from Friedrichsfeld to the German echelon area to work and died there. I think this also what happened to L/Cpl Whittle

It is interesting to note that the German records date from 1919 and 1920.
Charlie

[Tim Bell]

William Johnson had a 1914/15 Star from 1/10th Bttn Roll. This says he was disembodied 28/2/1919.  Also served in 2/8th, 19th & 17th Bttns.

The second page of grave registration indicates there were originally 2 graves marked up for William Whittle. 

T