info on 7th bttn Manchester Regiment please

[johnnywallman]

I am researching my great uncle Abraham Cohen who was killed in action in France in 1916. I have found he was part of the 7th bttn of the Manchester Regiment which later became the KIngs Liverpool Regiment. My research seems to show that the 7th bttn served in the middle east leaving me a little confused as to where exactly the 7th bttn Manchester regiment were serving in October 1916. My great uncle is buried at Bancourt Cemetery in France. He was killed in October 1916, would anyone have any idea of the area where he may have been fighting as I would like to make a trip there. Thank you.

[charlie]

Welcome to the forum.
Your Great Uncle Abram Cohen did not serve overseas with the Manchester Regt, all his service in France was with the 12th Battalion Kings Liverpool Regt. His service with the Manchester Regt would have been either with the 2/7th or 3/7th battalions - see the battalion index on the main site.

The CWGC concentration records https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/205679/cohen,-/ record his body was found at map reference 57c.N21.c.9.2 on this map and indicated by the small square on the attached.
http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A70182/-/collection

His war gratuity of £5-10s indicates he enlisted in June 1915. All his overseas service was after 01.01.1916.

The 12th Bn KLR war diary can be downloaded here, but is unlikely to mention him by name.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353118

Charlie

[PhilipG]

The History of the 12th Bn. of The King's Regiment (Liverpool) makes particular reference to the action of the 7th October 1916 and mentions that at the end of the fighting the battalion's casualties (All Ranks)  numbered 221.  PhilipG.

[johnnywallman]

thank you for that information which I will check out, I think it so sad that this poor boy like so many others died for his country and no family members have ever visited his grave, something i want to put right. I know he is buried at Bancourt and will visit there. Does this mean he died at rainbow or cloud trenches, if so I want to visit those sites, not easy I see from googling the area of the cemetery. thanks again for your help.

[charlie]

Assuming his body was not moved very far for burial, he didn‘t make it as far as Cloudy or Rainbow trench- see attached.

If you intend to visit the site, you can input the map reference numbers I gave into this site and the location will be shown on a modern day map http://www.tmapper.com A word of caution though, the point shown is not accurate as it is approximately 200 - 300 yards west of the actual point, compare the two points using the overlay facility.

Charlie

[johnnywallman]

thanks again for the help. the confusion started because i found a picture online of a monument laid by the employers of my great uncle for the fallen of ww1, his name was listed and it said manchester regiment. when i found his grave details it stated liverpool regiment. i have booked to visit from manchester via lille in may. i have tried to put in the location you gave via that site but failed but i see it was just outside Gueudecourt so that helps. you said that you didn't think he made the trenches, i can see the spot falls between the town Gueudecourt and the trenches so i am guessing he was hit advancing towards the trenches. i have read up on the fighting of october 7th, so sad, so wasteful. thanks again for your help.

[charlie]

His Manchester Regt number was 3786.

Sorry you are having problems with the map reference, attached is a screen shot showing where his body was found using a trench map overlaid on a modern map.
This link should take you to the map, the transparency can be adjusted using the slider.
http://www.tmapper.com/mapping/overlay_57csw1.php

Charlie

[johnnywallman]

wow, thank you charlie, that is amazing, you have been so helpful, thank you.

[PhilipG]

I would suggest that the location indicated is alongside the D574 of which part is designated, interestingly, as the Rue du Caribou.   PhilipG.

[PhilipG]

In the previous post I referred to the Rue du Caribou.  This will be in connection with the impressive Newfoundland Regt's memorial a short way along the D574 from Gueudecourt.   It is located in a clump of trees on the right hand side of the road.   It is shown in square 21d.   Well worth a visit.   PhilipG.

[johnnywallman]

thank you to everybody, your help has been absolutely fantastic, you do a fantastic job, thank you.

[PhilipG]

Johnnywallman,

I trust your visit went well.  PhilipG.

[johnnywallman]

thanks Philip, it was amazing, very moving and humbling. I have to say to all on this forum, first of all thank you for the help, it will be duly noted in my novel. Other points that may help other visitors....
1. There are several cemeteries in the region and they are extremely difficult to access by public transport, I did it but it included a 10km walk, one serious suggestion is hiring a car.
2. the cemetery records may not be accurate, the grave i searched was not at the reference on the records, that meant me searching grave by grave
3. Bancourt, not sure about the others, has nobody there to help so you are on your own.

If anybody wants any advice on how to get there I am more than happy to help. Thanks again to everybody that helped.