The Manchester Regiment Forum
Other Manchester Regiment Queries => All Other Manchester Regiment Queries => Topic started by: mack on October 20, 2007, 08:02:38 AM
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the absent voters registers that we now have in our archives,cover the following areas of manchester.
ancoats
ardwick
west gorton
gorton
openshaw
longsight
levenshulme
rusholme
chorlton on medlock
chorlton cum hardy
hulme
pendleton
broughton[higher+lower]
weaste
ordsall
greengate
crumpsall
bradford[manchester]
inner salford
our hard working war graves officer,TIS,has tracked down and paid for a copy of the oldham registers,they will be in our archives in a few days.
for those who dont know what an absent voters register is.
it was introduced in order that a serviceman/woman could register their vote[without proxy].no matter where they where.
the information was gathered in oct 1917,made available in feb 1918 and the registers typed up and kept at the town hall in oct 1918.
i dont mind doing a surname search,as long as you give me an area,bear in mind,that any serviceman/woman killed or discharged before oct 1917 is unlikely to be listed,also those under 21yrs old.
mack
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Hi Mack
To start the ball rolling I would be grateful if you could do a couple of look-ups for me:
John Robert Robson - Chorlton on Medlock or Hulme
George Edward Cowley - Hulme
Addresses and units would be most helpful if they are there.
Regards
Keith
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Hi Mack
To start the ball rolling I would be grateful if you could do a couple of look-ups for me:
John Robert Robson - Chorlton on Medlock or Hulme
George Edward Cowley - Hulme
Addresses and units would be most helpful if they are there.
Regards
Keith
hiya keith.
i noticed that johns service was between 1915/16,he wont be in the registers if he left the forces before oct 1917
i will check for george tonight for you.
mack
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Hi Mack
Thanks for the look-up. Sorry for any confusion but my grandfather John Robert transferred to the ASC at some stage during the war and was not discharged until 1919. Hopefully he should be on there somewhere and it might narrow down the date of transfer a bit, I have estimated sometime in 1916, when I believe volunteers for the ASC were called for. At some stage his mother moved to Llandudno but I don't know whether this was before or after the war. An address in 1912 was 95 Burlington Street, Chorlton-on Medlock, near the 7th Drill Hall, the house now demolished and an open space. He married my grandmother in 1920 and they then lived in Bristol Street, Hulme.
Any info greatly appreciated.
Regards
Keith
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hiya keith.
theres no george cowley in hulme,but theres this man in nearby ardwick.
pte g cowley
2/8th manchesters
volunteered june 1915
employed on home service till discharged in july 1916, as no longer fit for service
discharged with heart trouble
lived at 40 gorton st,ardwick.
there was a robert cowley in hulme.
pte robert cowley
391201
137th labour coy
lived at 42 york st,hulme.
mack
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Hi Mack
Thanks for looking but I don't think these are related. George Edward was the son of my ggfather George Cowley who had a garage/motorcycles/cycles/repairs business on Stretford Road, Hulme.
Regards
Keith
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Hi Mack
Thanks for looking but I don't think these are related. George Edward was the son of my ggfather George Cowley who had a garage/motorcycles/cycles/repairs business on Stretford Road, Hulme.
Regards
Keith
really? i grew up in old trafford where abouts was the business Keith?
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Mack-Could you have a look and see if my gt Uncle-9871 L/cpl Joseph Henry Henshall is in the AVL,s for Bradford or Ancoats. He was 21 when he was killed in August 1918 so he could possibly be there.
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Hi Can I just explain that I forwarded this query to mack. It had been here for a few days whilst mack was changing over his mail set up. he replied to me as opposed to this section. Hence the name tisgrannie in message.
This info is from mack:
joseph was from miles platting,i dont have that register yet.
but i do have info of my own that may be of help till i get the miles
platting register
L/cpl 9871 joseph,henry henshall
enlisted sept 1914.
18th manchesters,A.company,III platoon.
landed in france,8-11-1915.
son of thomas,henry+elizabeth,ann henshall,25 clifton rd,miles
platting.
killed in action on 28-8-1918 near bapaume while serving with the 1/5th
manchesters,aged 21.
buried in warlencourt british cemetery.
grave ref.IV.B.24
i cant be certain of the following,but he may have originally been
buried in hexham rd cemetery,le sars and his grave brought into
warlencourt.
hes mentioned in the national roll,and hes pictured on page 112 in the
manchester city battalion book of honour.
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Tis/Mack- When Joe enlisted in 1914 his parents didnt live at 25 Clifton st-they moved there sometime during the war. I cant find the address that he was living at in 1914. Fortunately, his records survived and there was some correspondence in his file regarding his personal effects that his father wrote. They had a lot of trouble getting his things back as the local pensions committee had his old address and it wasnt until 1921 that his effects turned up.
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Hi Mack
Are you still offering to do a search of the AVLs? I'm trying to track down my grandfather but have next to nothing to go on.
Thomas Ford (no middle name & at least three served in the regt). Born 29/11/1898 at 17 Boardman St, Droylsden, by the time of his marriage in 1927 he was living at 6 Emily St (which is variously noted as Droylsden, Ashton, Audenshaw and Ardwick, depending on the document!). I'm making a big assumption that he may have served with the Manchesters since Ashton was just the down road. He lost his leg at some stage during the war, but no idea whether before or after the AVLs were compiled; nor am I sure if he'll be listed because of the 21 year voting age. No medals extant, so no service number.
Got a photo of him here in some sort of uniform but without his leg.
Needle and haystack come to mind!
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hiya sitush.
i wont have the register that covers droylsden,till the end of january,but i will check it for you when i get it.
mack
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Thanks, Mack. I wouldn't even know where to go to get these lists (Town Hall, one of the local libraries, Lancs Record Office, regt museum etc). I have some fairly decent IT/web/database skills, though, & wonder if anyone is looking at putting these archives up on the web. My bet is that there are copyright issues.
No rush for what I would like to have info about, and I'm very appreciative for your offering & for the work you have already done for others.
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Thanks, Mack. I wouldn't even know where to go to get these lists (Town Hall, one of the local libraries, Lancs Record Office, regt museum etc). I have some fairly decent IT/web/database skills, though, & wonder if anyone is looking at putting these archives up on the web. My bet is that there are copyright issues.
No rush for what I would like to have info about, and I'm very appreciative for your offering & for the work you have already done for others.
i think you are just the person ime looking for,do you live localish.
mack ;D
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Hi,
Do the AVLs only relate to the Manchester Regt or all Mancunians?
If it is the later, could you look up my grandfather Joseph Holland.
He was married in Gorton in 1916, but he might be in Ardwick, and he was with the Welsh Fusiliers.
Cheers,
Dave
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Dave
AVL are absent voters lists so they apply to everyone ;)
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Hi,
Do the AVLs only relate to the Manchester Regt or all Mancunians?
If it is the later, could you look up my grandfather Joseph Holland.
He was married in Gorton in 1916, but he might be in Ardwick, and he was with the Welsh Fusiliers.
Cheers,
Dave
no problem dave,leave it with me.
mack
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i think you are just the person ime looking for,do you live localish.
mack ;D
I've PM'd you. There are a couple of issues with the idea, one of which is technical & so I won't bore the entire forum membership. The non-technical issue is the one I raised originally, ie: there may be copyright issues. Doubtless some people here have used www.freebmd.org.uk and its associate projects but perhaps most remain oblivious to the copyright constraints regarding the data on those sites. In the case of the www.freereg.org.uk project the constraints are likely seriously to impair the intended purpose, although of course anything is better than nowt. I'm not involved with the freebmd etc projects but I've a pretty good idea of how they're doing it and, in any event, this is much simpler from both the IT and the logistical point of view.
I'm not a lawyer but permission may be required. If there are no lawyers here then I think a chat with a Returning Officer is probably not a bad idea. And it may be that written consent would be required from every Returning Officer responsible for the areas which once were covered by (probably) far fewer ROs than nowadays (boundary changes etc). I'm deaf, so can't phone people ... but I can write a mean letter in legalese & perhaps use the Cambridge Uni old boy network if this becomes an issue. As a minimum they are going to insist on free access to all, but that is not an issue & it is the extremities of their potential views that worry me. In particular, public officers in charge of such historical data are becoming increasingly aware that they can raise funds by charging people & planning to implement an official or franchised online system etc.
I would advise that the database itself is the easy bit cf the legals. Transcription is a pain and I think as a project it wold be as well to insist that there is a verification process of some sort (double checking by another person prior to any entry being uploaded, at least, since typos are NOT the computer's fault). But, then, I've never actually seen an AVL & rather get the impression that Mack may have already done much of this; and turned his fingers into stumps as a consequence :-[
BTW, Mack, my deafness is not so bad that I need to sign, although I do know the obvious sign terminology (as do we all, and I foresee some of it being used in my direction!)
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simon!
this sounds very interesting!!
( btw forgot to say hello and welcome)
chris ;D
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Been here before, and you've helped me before harribobs - massively. It's just that the forum s/ware has changed & I'm now a virgin again. Truly, Xmas is a time for miracles!
I do think that you may have "lost" a photo previously in the gallery that I sent in of my paternal GF but, hey, you may be getting one of my maternal GF if I can confirm the regt.
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??? sorry mate, i can just about remember mandy and the cats names these days ::)
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hiya dave.
theres no joe holland in the gorton register,but theres 2 in the ardwick one
holland.joseph 2 wigley st. AM 3rd class,RAF.129737
holland.joseph 140 hyde rd. lab corps.35005.[prev 39379 ches regt]
mack
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Thanks - Wigley St is the one, they moved around that street a bit, I was born at number 15, and I remember visiting number 2, where an aunt was living. She lost her fiance in WW1 and never married. Pity there's no way of tracing who he was.
Is the reference to RAF the obvious one? He always said he was in the RFC at the end of the war and I know he was based at Scampton, but I've never found any evidence for it (apparently he had some good photos that I never saw, and threw them away when he moved house). I had assumed that he was attached to the RFC base as some kind of garrison, but still in the army. He was a bit of a story teller.
There is nothing on his MIC to suggest RFC.
Cheers,
Dave
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hiya dave.
the RAF didnt come into existance till 1-4-1918,so joseph must have registered his vote on or after this date.
but at least we found him ;D
mack
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Can I ask you to check if there was a William Holland on the list as well, he would be at the same address.
When I chased your information up, with my mother, she told me that her Uncle William , who is a bit of a mystery, was in the army. He was born in 1900 and so may not have gone far, but if he is there it will tell us his regiment.
Dave
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Forget that - he wasn't old enought to vote.
Cheers,
dave
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Forget that - he wasn't old enought to vote.
Cheers,
dave
aaahh.but he was old enough in 1920/1923.
theres an AVL at manchester library,that covers these years,i think most of those listed in it,were in the army of occupation on the rhine.
mack
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Thanks, It's not possible for me to get to Manchester at the moment, so it will have to wait for now.
Cheers,
Dave
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Hi,
Just another thank you for the Joseph Holland, the service number provided enabled me to get his service records from the NA, and it contains some very precise dates for his army service as well as the RFC/RAF service.
Happy New Year,
Dave
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Hi,
Just another thank you for the Joseph Holland, the service number provided enabled me to get his service records from the NA, and it contains some very precise dates for his army service as well as the RFC/RAF service.
Happy New Year,
Dave
thats a good result dave.
happy new year
mack
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Any chance of another AVL lookup - I just remembered that Joseph Holland's brother in law was also in the RFC.
He was John Neild,called Jack, and would probably be from Wigley st, Ardwick or close.
Cheers,
Dave
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Any chance of another AVL lookup - I just remembered that Joseph Holland's brother in law was also in the RFC.
He was John Neild,called Jack, and would probably be from Wigley st, Ardwick or close.
Cheers,
Dave
dave.
ime sorry,but in my haste to post a reply to your joe holland query,i overlooked
THIS.
sgt 3750 john,william neild
82nd squadron
RAF
2 wigley st,ardwick.
mack
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Brilliant, thanks - another service record to get.
Dave
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the 82nd squadron was formed at doncaster on 7-1-17 and disbanded at tangmere on 4-7-19.
mack
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Blimey - I was going to wait for the service records to turn up before delving further.
Does his service number suggest an early entrant? He was born in 1894 so he could have signed up early in war.
Dave
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What other years were the AVLs compiled for?
I still have a mystery over my grandfather Ralph Thomas Campbell.
Manchester Rgt Boer War, invalided out after Ladysmith, but not in the 1901 census.
Joined S Lancs 1914, discharged 3 months later as unfit.
Said he was in Scotland on garrison duty until May 1916 when he was shipped to Egypt with
the R Sussex Rgt.
Could the AVLs give any clues? His address was Harrowby St, Collyhurst.
Cheers,
Dave
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Hi All !
and disbanded at tangmere on 4-7-19.mack
As an aside, but funny Tangmere should come up.............. I drove past the other day and had not realised as part of the redevelopment (a euphemism for building on the land) they have a museum
http://www.tangmere-museum.org.uk/
Wendi :)
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What other years were the AVLs compiled for?
I still have a mystery over my grandfather Ralph Thomas Campbell.
Manchester Rgt Boer War, invalided out after Ladysmith, but not in the 1901 census.
Joined S Lancs 1914, discharged 3 months later as unfit.
Said he was in Scotland on garrison duty until May 1916 when he was shipped to Egypt with
the R Sussex Rgt.
Could the AVLs give any clues? His address was Harrowby St, Collyhurst.
Cheers,
Dave
the AVLs were introduced in 1918,manchester has registers for 1918,1919 and 1920/23,its possible your grandfather is in one of them,i dont have the one that covers collyhurst yet.
mack
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Hi, I've been told another of the family was in the army, Thomas Edward Neild.
He would probably have been in Craig St, Gorton.
Could you check the AVL for him please.
Cheers,
Dave
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sapper 351440 thomas,edwin nield
IW+D.RE
123 craig rd,gorton
also listed at this address,was.
pte 60975 harry mace
24th home service battalion,cheshire
mack
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Many Thanks, Thomas married Caroline Mace so Harry was probably her brother. Something I'll have to look into now.
I thought we had another interesting link in your reply a few days ago about the Chadwicks. There was one at 8 Wigley st, 3 doors from where my family lived, so I asked my mother. She remembers Alice Chadwick, says that Alice's husband was killed in the war.
But they weren't the right Chadwick family that was being searched for.
Cheers,
Dave
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Hi,
Just another thank you for the Joseph Holland, the service number provided enabled me to get his service records from the NA, and it contains some very precise dates for his army service as well as the RFC/RAF service.
Happy New Year,
Dave
theres a picture of wigley st in the manchester library online image collection.
mack
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Yes , I have it thanks.
I can just about make out the house I was born in.
Cheers,
Dave
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What other years were the AVLs compiled for?
I still have a mystery over my grandfather Ralph Thomas Campbell.
Manchester Rgt Boer War, invalided out after Ladysmith, but not in the 1901 census.
Joined S Lancs 1914, discharged 3 months later as unfit.
Said he was in Scotland on garrison duty until May 1916 when he was shipped to Egypt with
the R Sussex Rgt.
Could the AVLs give any clues? His address was Harrowby St, Collyhurst.
Cheers,
Dave
pte 21646 ralph,thomas campbell.
royal sussex regt
then pte 360400 labour corps
38 harrowby st,collyhurst
this fella lived a few doors away
sgt 275087 william campbell
manchester regt
24 harrowby st,collyhurst.
mack
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Tantalising - I know about both of his regiments and was hoping the AVL might give a clue as to when he transferred. I suppose it tells me it must have happenned before the first date for registering.
I read that the act of parliament was passed 6/2/1918 so that is an absolute first date.
He was back in Egypt in Feb 1918, as we have a postcard from him, and my suspicion was that it was because he was unfit for fighting by then - this seems to confirm that.
I have no record of a William Campbell of suitable age, is there anything in the files that tells us who his parents were, he could be an unknown cousin?
Thanks again,
Dave
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dave.
he only gives his lab corps unit in the AVL,i checked it against the MIC before i posted it for you.
mack
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Ok, I have his MIC and I know he was in the R Sussex in Aug 1917 from my Dad's birth cert.
On the National Roll he says he was in most of the actions in Palestine we know he was in Egypt, probably Alexandria, in Feb&Mar 1918.
According to the Labour Corps historian, his number suggests he was with the Corps in the Alexandria area in the summer of 1917.
As he had an SWB, it seems likely that he was transferred through ill health or injury, possibley after the 2nd battle of Gaza in April 1917.
I think the only thing left to get is the SWB reference, do see if that gives any information.
It seems odd that he had the SWB, given he wasn't demobbed until 1919 - I thought that it was only given if they were discharged through ill health.
Dave
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Hi Mack,
Regarding the information you gave me a few weeks ago about the AVL for John Neild:
sgt 3750 john,william neild
82nd squadron
RAF
2 wigley st,ardwick.
I got his service records and they said he was in 42 Sqn then 22 Sqn, so I accepted that.
Today I received a letter from his granddaughter, with some copies of photos, and she also mentioned that she found a French phrase book with his address written in.
And that said 82 Sq, RFC,BEF,France.
There's always something else to worry about !
Cheers,
Dave
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Hi Mack,
Regarding the information you gave me a few weeks ago about the AVL for John Neild:
sgt 3750 john,william neild
82nd squadron
RAF
2 wigley st,ardwick.
I got his service records and they said he was in 42 Sqn then 22 Sqn, so I accepted that.
Today I received a letter from his granddaughter, with some copies of photos, and she also mentioned that she found a French phrase book with his address written in.
And that said 82 Sq, RFC,BEF,France.
There's always something else to worry about !
Cheers,
Dave
good work dave.
thats two successes on the trot for you
mack
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Hi Mack,
As a long shot, could you see who was at 61 Heald Place, Rusholme?
It is one of 4 addresses written on the back of a group photo, the other 3 are just road names and could be anywhere.
Cheers,
Dave
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i think that address is in the moss side register,what are the other roads called.
mack
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The others are:
16 North Grove
Dartford Rd
Church Rd
There is a William Turnbull, engineer, living at the Rusholme address in 1911
Dave
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dave.
whats the name of the man at church rd.
mack
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I don't know any names - its a group photo which includes the John Neild you found for me a while back. There are 7 RFC blokes in flying type gear. on the back are the addresses and 3 numbers, 85477,4006T and 112640.
I just thought I might be able to identify one of them, assuming they are their addresses.
Dave
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Larysa Bolton, the excellent Tameside Archivist, has produced a very clear description of the situation regarding AVLs from the old towns that make up present day Tameside. It is well worth looking at as it clears up a lot of the ambiguities which have been expressed on the Forum from time to time.
The web site is www.tameside.gov.uk/archives/absentvoters.
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Very, very useful. Pat on the back for Larysa. Hopefully some time in the next year or two she may be in possession of a copy of a searchable version of Manchester/Salford AVLs !